"Green" reef planning

[scarletknight06]

I'm currently on a hiatus from the hobby, but am still keeping up with it via RC and other boards and plan on having a tank again (hopefully, read below) when the finances permit in a couple of years.

During my hiatus, I've come to realize the measureable impact our hobby has on the oceans/reefs of the world (please let's not debate this here, its been covered in other threads), and have become increasingly uncomfortable to the point where I question whether I can participate in such a hobby in the future.

I would like to discuss/take recommendations on how to build or design a system that tries to have the least impact possible on natural reefs. Please, let's not argue about how things could be done cheaper; this is a policy choice I've personally made (others are free to disagree) and I fully accept the financial ramifications of this decision.

I guess the main problems I see are energy usage (the amount reefers use is astonishing) and wild collection. Let's talk about some ways to get around these (or at least mitigate their effects). I've listed some things below and proposed "solutions" or questions. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Lights: select the most efficient system (whether that be LED, T5, or MH) for the type of coral one desires to keep (see below).

Skimmer: many efficient options out there

Cooling: system should be designed so as to not require the use of a chiller or execessive evaporative cooling (reduce water usage)

heating: ??

circulation: propeller style power heads seem the way to go

Livestock----
Corals: should one consider only keeping soft corals to keep energy usage down? only aquacultures sps/lps?
Fish: only aquacultured/captive bred specimens
liverock: man made (DIY or reef ceramics type products)
substrate: ???


I'd like to note that my fiancee and plan to become producers of solar power via this company so I will likely not set up a tank until we are in a housing situation where we can do this (aka, we no longer rent).

[Wolverine]

First the easy stuff. Get aquacultured LR, LS, corals, and tank-raised fish. For the rocks, there are really a lot of different options, and it would be a matter of personal opinion which one is best.
To be truly green, you'd have to get these locally. I know that it could be done here, but this will really only work for people in larger areas (or near the coasts).

If you want to go full reef, you could consider natural light. Either in a greenhouse setup, or with sun-tubes, or some similar type of skylight. I'm not sure we want to get into the debate over LED vs T5 lighting for the most energy efficient, since there are 40-something pages of that debate elsewhere. I think that long-term, LED is going to be the way to do it, but I haven't seen enough to be sure that it's there right now. And LED would have the advantage that it doesn't produce as much heat, so you'd be less concerned with using a chiller. You'd have to go with evaporative cooling, and have an automatic system to replace the water.

Another option, as you sort of alluded to, is simply to have enough solar power generated to power the entire tank (I would do it with backup batteries, of course. This would let you do everything in a "conventional" manner, though it wouldn't be in the spirit of going green.

You will need at least one pump of some kind to move water. Some people use one monster pump and have the energy diverted to different parts of the system. One branch going to a return, another to a refugium, another to the skimmer, etc. The downside is that you have to be good at plumbing to do this without leaks, and it takes some tweaking to get the right amount of water going to the right thing, but it can be done. (You have to make sure you have a back-up pump available, because if this one goes down, the tank can get in trouble in a hurry)

I've also seen a couple of tanks that use part of the return from a tank to feed the skimmer, rather than using a pump. I'm not convinced that this is a great way to do it.

For wavemaking, something like the SQWD doesn't use any electricity. A Carlson surge device, as long as you can handle the noise, is also a nice green way to do it, and it involves no moving parts, so you don't have to worry about the potential for failure there.

If you set things up right, you can actually move a heck of a lot of water with an airpump of some kind. energywise, these can be a whole lot more efficient than water pumps when they're used on a large scale. I'm not sure if they would give you as much advantage on a small scale.

I guess that's all I have for now.

Dave

[scarletknight06]

Thanks for your thoughts, and yes agreed lets not bring up the merits of LED's at this point. It would be really cool to use natural sunlight and surge devices. The possibility of those solutions will have to be assessed as my housing situation changes.

Any thoughts on the environmental benefits/harms of using NSW for water changes if there are any?

[treedesign]

The first issue with NSW is finding an unpolluted source (and one thats easy to get to), which from what I read is harder than it seems. Pre-packaged SW probably wouldn't be the way to go due to packaging, transportation, etc...

The second issue would be disposal of the waste water from water changes. We of course don't want to pollute the ocean any more than it is, but would it be more efficient to let the water company treat the water (and let it go wherever it goes) or treat it ourselves (assuming we can) and complete the circle so to speak by releasing it back to nature?

Sorry, I hate to end my answer with a question, so... In my opinion, assuming you have access to NSW, collecting it (and maybe rainwater for topoff) for use in an aquarium shouldn't be all that bad. Not saying its perfect, but it seems that it could have less of an impact than producing salt, transporting it to the store, to the home, and mixing it with purified tap water. Of course those of us that are a little landlocked really have no choice but to go artificial. But by all means, prove me wrong, we're all here to learn.

[treedesign]

Ok, and regarding your first post.

It may be beneficial to design the system based around the livestock that is most easily cared for. (In the idea that easier = less equipment) So maybe aquacultured softies/lps/shrooms etc in natural sunlight.

As far as a skimmer goes, maybe try to go without one while keeping the bioload down, especially as tank size increases. Macroalgae could also be used in the display tank rather than in a refugium, eliminating the extra tank, and thus a return pump.

Cooling: maybe thermoelectric There's a company called Peltech that makes a solid state heat pump for aquariums up to 210 gal (9 degree pull down). It draws about half the electricity as a comparable standard chiller, with no refrigerants. An additional plus is that thermoelectrics can also be used to heat an aquarium.

Circulation: Definitely prop pumps. They are just too efficient to not use them really. Plus if you were using a single tank as the system, that's all you'd need for water movement. (I personally would love to see one someday with a little solar panel on it that runs on the light given off by your lighting system.)

I agree with Wolverine that you should try to get as much as you can locally, both product and livestock. If you do go online, pick the delivery company that has a distribution center closest to your house. (Theoretically they then wouldn't have to drive as far or out of their way.)

Lastly for now is the actual container for the system. Acrylic is considered more efficient for being a better insulator of heat. I don't know, however, which material requires less energy to manufacture. It'll be better when companies use clear cellulosic (plant-based) plastic to make aquariums, but that day is not here yet. A plywood (sustainably harvested) tank with a viewing window could be a possibility (environmental friendliness of epoxy sealant/paint?)

Sorry if I'm thinking too far into this materials/manufacturing wise, it's what they taught us in design school.

[Rossini]

You could get your electricity from a green energy scheme which supports renewable energys.

[Foosinho]

I think that if you generate the power cleanly on-site (eg, solar or wind), then it doesn't really matter how much power you use.

That said, on-site generation can be pricey, so it makes sense to limit consumption. Plus, higher efficiency means less waste heat, and we should also try to reduce use of consumables (bulbs that need replacement).

My pie-in-the-sky plan for when I build my house is to add a bump-out room in my basement that would give me access to natural solar lighting that could be supplemented. Since I want to build my house using geothermal for heat (and cooling?), I could use a heat pump to heat my tank with energy mined from the geothermal (just run a feed off the main line to the tank room), and a simple heat exchanger could provide cooling. By reducing evaporative cooling, I can reduce water consumption.

Careful design of plumbing can provide water movement and limit energy use as mentioned above - but reducing energy use is of a lower priority if I can generate enough juice on-site.

Of course, I plan to build my own (large) tank on-site, and I plan to purchase locally aquacultured specimens to populate the tank - and I plan to frag and breed stuff to pass on to other hobbyists myself.

[ActinopteryGuy]

Ide stay away from NSW in DC eww. I ran NSW in my nano here in OR this summer and it worked great except for all the HA i got from the high nutrient content of the local water.

No skimmer just macro.

[lotekfish]

I'm glad you posted this because I'm in the planning stages of a whole-house renovation that will take place this spring. One of the main goals is to make our house more energy efficient with better insulation, solar hot water heating, etc. And of course I've been thinking about where the reef tank will go and how to make it more sustainable.

Using captive bred fish and fragged soft corals makes sense, which is what I have now. I've been wondering what I would do about fish if (when) I move from my 26 gallon to something larger since all captive bred fish right now are on the small size and I already have a pair of clowns and an orchid dottyback. The more I think about it the more I realize I'm fine with that, though maybe I'll add a goby. I'm actually more fascinated by my frogspawn than the clowns right now so I think I'll be pretty happy with minimal fish and room for a lot more coral frags. Oh, and I also use my own cement rock which I'll keep on making.

I like the idea of adding more macro algae to the display. I already have some in my display tank now with the bulk of it in the fuge, but I hadn't thought about the idea of getting a larger display tank so I could add more macro algae to it and get rid of the sump fuge. That would eliminate one more light, but I don't know if I would eliminate the sump entirely. My skimmer is in the sump and with the amount of crap it pulls out every day it's hard to imagine running a tank without it. It's worth a try.

My biggest question is what size tank is an appropriate compromise between maintaining a stable reef system and operating a resource hog. I know this is a very subjective area. My 26 gallon seems a little too cramped, but over 120 gallons seems excessive. I think for me it will come down to lighting. I'm looking into a combination of natural light (solatubes) and LEDs and the size of the tank will ultimately depend on what I can design and afford.

I hope more people add their thoughts to this thread. A reef tank will never be zero impact, at least from an energy standpoint, and our lives will never be zero impact either. I look at my tank as part of my total energy consumption, my "energy allowance" for lack of a better term. If I really want to have this tank, then I need to make sacrifices in other parts of my life. For instance, I ride my bike to work most days, but I drive when I feel lazy. If I get a larger tank maybe I make a deal with myself to ride to work at least 4 days a week. I think a lot about water consumption of tanks with respect to water changes and evaporation, but consider that even a low-flow shower head puts out 2.5 gallons a minute, or 12.5 gallons for a short 5 minute shower. If I take one less shower a week, or just shorter ones, that's more water saved than my current tank water consumption. So, I could move up to a 120 gallon tank if I only take one shower a week and still be saving water!

Keep the ideas coming

[scarletknight06]

Thanks for your response. There are also some captive bred angelfish out there, but they can be very expensive.

It's hard to say what turns into a resource hog, but really I think a 180 can be done efficiently. Using LED's and solatubes you can definitely keep the lighting energy draw down. For softies/lps you'd be fine with 2 tunze's or vortechs. Then you basically (i know, there's always more) need a skimmer (I'd get an ER RS 250), heater, and a return pump (many efficient options). I think thats very reasonable, especially if you are compensating for your energy use with other things.

If you're in a state with net metering I would seriously consider using the company (link posted above) to provide/produce solar energy. As far as solar water heaters, I've read that the new Rheem inline heaters use much less energy than a regular water heater, but work better. Just something to consider.

[samtheman]

"During my hiatus, I've come to realize the measureable impact our hobby has on the oceans/reefs of the world (please let's not debate this here, its been covered in other threads), and have become increasingly uncomfortable to the point where I question whether I can participate in such a hobby in the future."

What are the measureable impacts?

[scarletknight06]

If you'd like to debate this point please go to this thread http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1085208
or other similar ones. Please keep this thread on topic.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by treedesign
Cooling: maybe thermoelectric There's a company called Peltech that makes a solid state heat pump for aquariums up to 210 gal (9 degree pull down). It draws about half the electricity as a comparable standard chiller, with no refrigerants. An additional plus is that thermoelectrics can also be used to heat an aquarium.

Those are not nearly as efficient as using either evaporation (depending on where you live), or geothermal, which can work for aquaria and pools as well.

[

Lastly for now is the actual container for the system. Acrylic is considered more efficient for being a better insulator of heat. I don't know, however, which material requires less energy to manufacture. It'll be better when companies use clear cellulosic (plant-based) plastic to make aquariums, but that day is not here yet. A plywood (sustainably harvested) tank with a viewing window could be a possibility (environmental friendliness of epoxy sealant/paint?)

This is tougher, it's true that acrylic is a better insulator, but there is much more energy that goes into the manufacturing of it, with much more environmental toxicity than there is with glass.

I personally like having multiple vewing panes, but that's personal taste.

Dave

[Steveabg]

Someone said they're making their own rock, and I believe this is an excellent idea, and I'm somewhat shocked that nobody is manufacturing live rock on a commercial scale. (Are they?)

It's a very simple procedure, and if you seed a batch with some real live rock, you'll end up with the same beneficial LR.

http://www.athiel.com/lib3/arago.htm

Not to mention it would be much cheaper than buying collected live rock. You might miss out on the occasional beneficial hitchhiker, but you'll miss out on the nasty ones, as well!

[scarletknight06]

Thanks all for the comments.

If I had any carpentry skills, I would certain make my own tank/stand from sustainable lumber supplies, but alas I have no such skills.....

Thanks for the link on making your own live rock. I know several places sell aquacultured/home made live rock. Also there's reef ceramics which is a little more expensive, but they have some really cool shapes (pillars).

Also, I currently have a turtle that I adopted from a friend who had to move abroad (great friend right!) and he lives my old 40 breeder. I'm thinking of getting him whats called a waterland tub, which is a tub with a ramp in it for a basking spot. Its made of recycled plastic, which makes me wonder if any of the rubbermaid stock tank type things that people use for sumps are made with recycled material.

[kydsexy]

i can tell you right now that making a stand requires no carpentry skills at all. you go buy 2x4s and 4x4s. that's all you need.

_____________
/ T / / / / / / / / T /
T-----------------T

ok im still a rookie at this, but your 4x4s are your legs--space them evenly . the 2x4s serve as braces around the tank. 2 rows. throw a slab of wood over the fronts and sides, set up your sumps next to the tank. easy simple, simple looking but gets the job done. home depot has tons of scrap wood that you can use. brand new stand 30 bucks.

[Samala]

I think the substrate part of this idea is easy: no substrate. Unless you're keeping sand sifting gobies or seagrasses or substrate-loving macroalgae, its just not needed. Plenty of tanks have gone without it.

Originally posted by treedesign
The second issue would be disposal of the waste water from water changes. We of course don't want to pollute the ocean any more than it is, but would it be more efficient to let the water company treat the water (and let it go wherever it goes) or treat it ourselves (assuming we can) and complete the circle so to speak by releasing it back to nature?

This post is older but I balked when I got to it and I can't say this strongly enough:

Under NO circumstances should you release things directly back to nature that are coming from your aquarium.

Not even if you have treated the water and believe all the living things to be dead. Not even if its been bleached for days. Not even if all the water originated from NSW and all the things in your tank are native to your area.

>Sarah

[treedesign]

About the stock tanks. The black polyethylene ones sold by Aquatic Ecosystems are 100% recycled.

I also have to say that I as well would NEVER advocate releasing anything from our aquariums. Just posing the question for discussion

Oh, and I'll second the not needing carpentry skills, especially if you can get someone to guide you through it. Just keep it simple (usually works better that way, not to mention uses less materials).

[scarletknight06]

well, when the time comes, perhaps I will try to make my own stand.

Thanks for all the comments everyone.

[scarletknight06]

oh, and I should note.....I live in the DC area and I pass by the national mall on my way to work. Currently there's a solar decathlon going on there, where teams have built solar powered and otherwise energy efficient homes. There's a competition based on energy efficiency and overall look of the homes. If anyone is in the area, you should take a look. Some of the houses are quite attractive.

Anyways.....I noticed on one of the houses what looks like an aquarium on the outer wall of the house. This was upon a quick view from my bike, but I will get a closer look/picture on friday.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by treedesign
I also have to say that I as well would NEVER advocate releasing anything from our aquariums. Just posing the question for discussion

Even just dumping the water would be a bad idea. The danger of releasing animals that displace native species is plenty well documented (such as the lionfish on the Atlantic US coast). This is easily avoided by simply not releasing the animals.

The potentially bigger danger is releasing infectious organisms in the water against which native species may not have resistance. This could happen even with just dumping tank water back into the ocean.

Dave

[Rossini]

Originally posted by scarletknight06
well, when the time comes, perhaps I will try to make my own stand.

Thanks for all the comments everyone.

Remember to use FSC certified timber.

Good luck on your project. I'm sure it will be great and an inspiration.

[ChemE]

Running a reef tank with a bare minimum of power is a mental challenge I enjoy very much. I've set up a site so I don't have to type the same thing over and over; you might check it out.

http://www.energystarreefs.com/

[rickyfins]

OH BOY.. Those posts were to long for my attention span.

Simple.

Lighting LED 12volt DC
pumps vortechs 12 volts DC

solar panel- already 12 volts DC

done.

LOL go 12 volt and use solar very green all free electricity. Even if you need an inverter to convert to 110v AC for those things you can not purchase in 12 volt DC

Makes a green project much easier.

[scarletknight06]

Here's one thing I wanted to ask about: what about all that "waste" water from RODI units? I used to try and save some to water plants, etc, but I know must just direct it right into the drain. Are there any RODI units out there that produce no "waste" water or substantially less?