Interceptor treatment and aefw?

[Sullyman]

Has anyone else treated for red bugs with interceptor and ended up with a aefw problem a month or so later?
The reason I'm asking is that I'm wondering if the interceptor can be killing something in the tank that's keeping aefws in check.
Something that eats the aefw eggs, could pods possibly be a fw predator? Or some other creature that preys on the worms or their eggs but is killed off by the interceptor.
All input welcome.

[CUNAReefer]

Hey Sullyman,

Sorry to hear about the problems. What signs have led you to believe that you have AEFW? I ask because there is a reefer here in Madison that recently dosed Interceptor, and has signs similar to an AEFW infestation. Upon closer inspection, he didn't have FW, but most of his corals slowly died off. After some large water changes, Activated Carbon, and some patience he decided to add an acro frag I gave him. Seems to be doing great so far.

Also, have you thought of dosing interceptor outside the tank? If you have a coral that you suspect of being infected with AEFW and is easily removable from the tank, I would try putting it in some tank water with a high dosage of interceptor. In the past, I have dissolved an entire tablet (51 - 100 lbs. rated) in about 4 gallons of water. Not to say it will kill the AEFW, but it killed everything else.

Good Luck!
James

[fishdoc11]

There have been several who have postulated that red bugs have something to do with keeping AEFW populations in check over the past few years. My personal opinion is that the aquarist becomes much more aware of things that affect his/her corals when we notice we have red bugs. I know I became much more watchfull. This leads to noticing the harder to spot AEFW.

Interceptor, even at high doses, is not a good choice for AEFW's. Levamisole, TMPCC (now starting to be questioned as to it's effectiveness by some aquarists) and the new TLF dip are better choices.

hth, Chris

[Sullyman]

Hey James, I dosed for red bugs and the interceptor did the trick, red bugs gone. But I now have issues with the dreaded worms.
I started seeing tissue loss on a few corals so I took one out and dipped it in TMPCC and found that I had flat worms, the clear acro eating type. I haven't added anything since the rb treatment, so I'm thinking maybe the interceptor may kill off might have been keeping the aefws in check.
I've dipped and inspected all acros, only found eggs on 2 out of over a hundred pieces, but that's enough.

[Sullyman]

Chris, I've got health issues that keep me home most of the time, so I'm always watching my tank a lot. I'm just throwing this out there to see if others have had similar issues after red bug treatments.
It would be nice to find out more about this parasite and a better treatment for them

[cham]

I also dosed for redbugs and found AEFW's just weeks after.

I'm wondering if the cleaner/peppermint shrimp and or other crustations that I killed with interceptor were the ones keeping my acros clean.

[Sullyman]

I was thinking that something that ate even just the eggs could fend them off or just let a few get through, never enough to populate to the stage that corals showed distress.
I think back to seeing pods racing all around the tank at night, to now when they're just starting to get back to those numbers.
And it's too late.
I'd much rather live with red bugs than go through this.

[fishdoc11]

Originally posted by Sullyman
I'd much rather live with red bugs than go through this.

You can always reintroduce some red bugs if that's the way you feel. I seriously doubt it would help anything though. Lots of people have AEFW's with all the animals you describe present, including myself, and they don't typically help much.
Chris

[Sullyman]

No Chris, I'm not looking to get the bugs back but still wonder if there is some connection between the interceptor and the worms.

[TA]

I've tried in the past to rid my system of red bug, only to have it come back months later......hate to go through the treatment again.

They don't seem to be harming my acros and they aren't in plague proportions (yet!).....is there any real reason I should reconsider and treat with interceptor again?

Haven't had any AEFW, so can't comment there....

[fishdoc11]

Originally posted by TA
I've tried in the past to rid my system of red bug, only to have it come back months later......hate to go through the treatment again.

What was your treatment regimine? Dosage? Duration? # of treatments and time between?

[TA]

Not sure what went wrong with the treatment (weren't reintroduced, either)...and don't want to deviate from the original post. I dosed ~5-10x desired concentration; 3 times at one week intervals; Skimmer/carbon/WC as suggested.

Was just curious to know what the general concerns are if the RBs are left unchecked? I've had 'em quite a while now.

[PeterChefalo]

Take a look at the thread I started about citron gobies and red bugs. I'm convinced that treating a tank with interceptor is a bad idea and your experiences bear that out.

[flyyyguy]

while i disagree that treating your tank with interceptor causes problems directly, I can verify the original posters issue from experience

I had red bugs in a big way and my corals werent happy, PE was poor and color wasnt much better on many speciomens. Nothing was dying and no niticalbe real damage besides the symptoms i just described. I did the intercpetor thing and within one month all of a sudden my REAL problem became blatantly clear. I had aefw's.

What happened in treating with intercpetor or possibly the loss of the redbugs that allowed the before unnoticed aefw's to jump into my face plain as day i have no idea. but it surely did.

Good luck. I finally beat them by cutting all of my corals off far from the base and tossing the rest....QT'd and treated what i cut off to save for 6 weeks before returning to the tank and it was successful. ...too bad I didnt know that in less than a year later I was going to kill everything anyway or i wouldnt have went to the trouble.

[fishdoc11]

Originally posted by TA
Not sure what went wrong with the treatment (weren't reintroduced, either)...and don't want to deviate from the original post. I dosed ~5-10x desired concentration; 3 times at one week intervals; Skimmer/carbon/WC as suggested.

Was just curious to know what the general concerns are if the RBs are left unchecked? I've had 'em quite a while now.

Thanks for the response. In several years on this board following Interceptor threads I've never seen someone post that treating according to Dustin's directions with no reintroduction didn't work.

[fishdoc11]

Originally posted by PeterChefalo
Take a look at the thread I started about citron gobies and red bugs. I'm convinced that treating a tank with interceptor is a bad idea and your experiences bear that out.

Link?

FWIW I didn't discover I had AEFW's till a good 3 years after I treated for red bugs and I'm fairly ceartain I had them all along (hardly anymore introductuons after that with a dipping and QT proceedure, they could have still gotten through though). I also ended up pretty much wiping out my Acros getting rid of AEFW's.
I'll look for the old thread where this was brought up for the first time a couple of years ago.......the AEFW's getting worse after red bug treatment idea.

Chris

[flyyyguy]

Originally posted by fishdoc11


Interceptor, even at high doses, is not a good choice for AEFW's. Levamisole, TMPCC (now starting to be questioned as to it's effectiveness by some aquarists) and the new TLF dip are better choices.

hth, Chris

chris, can you elaborate on this or provide some reading??

being as TMPCC is what i use I am more than a little interested and will gladly change my chosen medicine if need be......

it has worked for me for a while, (as well a what I used when i had them and got rid of them) but I cant say that i have actually found any since so I may have just been lucky.....

[fishdoc11]

Originally posted by flyyyguy
chris, can you elaborate on this or provide some reading??

being as TMPCC is what i use I am more than a little interested and will gladly change my chosen medicine if need be......

it has worked for me for a while, but I cant say that i hae actually found any so I may have just been lucky.....

Philwd has reported it not working for him recently. He treated with a douple dose for 15 minutes and still had live worms on the coral he was treating.

[flyyyguy]

I wonder if he maybe had a compromised solution.

I have hurt and lost corals pushign the envelope with tht stuff on new arrivals.........im pretty careful to not exceed the dosage.

If at a double dosage didnt kill thm the first thing that comes tom mind is that it was a weak or compromised bottle of the stuff.......

just thinking out loud.......

[TA]

Originally posted by fishdoc11
Thanks for the response. In several years on this board following Interceptor threads I've never seen someone post that treating according to Dustin's directions with no reintroduction didn't work.

Yeah, I wondered about that, but at the same time, given it did happen to me, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened to others as well. Guess it just must have been something I did.

I'll just keep an eye out for now.

Good luck with the aefws....

[Philwd]

I used new bottles of TMPCC. AEFW surely do come off. I think it just stuns them and unless they ALL fall off they revive once back in the tank. I did double strength doses for 15-20 min. One treatment going into the QT and one coming out. 8 days apart. One bottle each treatment since I used a tub to treat as many corals as possible in one dose. These then went into the frag tank. I only took frags from corals with no eggs and the frags did not have any bite damage. And they still got into the frag tank. I noticed them 2 months later. I had even done an additional TMPCC dip a month after going into the frag tank on the tri colors since they seem to be the fav food for the FW.

I should state the frag tank was newly set up, is completely isolated from the display and the only acros the tank ever saw were ones that went through the TMPCC and QT. No rock or equipment from the display went into the frag tank.

Then I tried Coral Revive. I saw full grown FW fall off in 30 sec. with almost no agitation. Just twisted the coral. They writhed around for ~ 2 min then they were still. I did try and move one to fresh water to see if it would revive but it disintegrated easily.

BTW I did see the AEFW 5 weeks after I treated the tank for RB. It was only because I noticed my Garf Bonsai looking mottled. It was up front and one I always looked at.

[flyyyguy]

thanks for the reply philw.

So how long do you dip in coral revive and at what concentration?? have you slost any frags with it and do you see the typical slight color loss/browning ot with it as well on many corals??

[Philwd]

I've been using standard dosage 15-20 min again. The first 2 bottles I had no issues with corals browning. I actually saw near immediate color improvement. Now with the third bottle I just received and used Sun it appears something was different. Stronger maybe. The bath water was milkier and the corals didn't respond nearly as well. I have some bleaching on my Elias Blue and I may lose my Candelight. I see polyps but it competely bleached. Several other corals really slimed up but are ok. I need to go back and see if they changed the dosage instructions. I just used what I had been. After 3 treatments now I see no more eggs and I've seen no new AEFW damage

[okcfishlady]

Revive is a great product. I'm using it on all my new corals. Just do not overdose. Overdosing will bleach your corals

[tanya72806]

how much do you dose of the revive ?