220 Inwall - Plan

[Im Lon 2]

On trimming around the tank here are my plans.. since the drywall is 1/2" thicker than the wall and you cannot make that flush I will do something like Weatherson said. I will trim the tank out setting the trim on the drywall this will leave a 1/2" gab between the glass and the trim. in that gab I will cut a piece of 1/2 x 3/4 pine trim (They have this at Lowes and Home Depot) to slide in that gab. It will fit flush against the trim and the glass. This piece should not be noticeable at all.

HTH

[bheron]

weatherson:
If you can, I'd recommend (also) having the tank drilled and making it reef-ready. I prefer the simplicity of this design and the ease and piece of mind that comes with it. I guarantee your inhabitants wants will change over time and you will require more water movement for filtration needs.

- interesting. i havent given this much thought but I definitely see your point: doing it now will make it so much easier in the future if the need arises. in trying to keep my plan simple i may be overlooking opportunities for flexibility. here's what I have thought on this: the tank I'm buying from my LFS is a perfecto 220 gal (72x24x30) and costs $704.99. Amazing! I simply wanted a glass box to work with. Last time I was there I did see several reef ready tanks, that simply meant they were drilled with 4 holes in the bottom of the tank. also had options for overflow boxes to put in. the drilled tank runs $946.99. So I opted against that initially. however, b/c i havent purchased the tank (maybe this week) I'm still open to it. Essentially another $250 for future flexibility. Hmmm, will have to think about it now. (also, I havent heard anything bad about perfecto's per say. Any opinion?)

I'd also recommend going with an external pump for circulation. The advantages include less heat transfer as well as possibly more efficient power usage. This also provides the ability to move more water if desired.

- I would def be up for this. But I dont know much at all about them which makes them a bit intimidating. i know there are so many diff types and wouldnt even know where to start. if i had to take a shot, i'd say the iwaki's are one of the more popular? with the 2 tunze streams in the tank i'll have a good amount of flow, so i just need to get water from the sump back up to the tank. what kind of pump would you recommend here? also, again, it will provide me with more flexibility but defeats the idea of simplicity as I'll have to drill my sump to install it?

Not sure if it was explained in enough depth or not yet but the need to get fresh air (oxygen) into your tank room is very important.

- i can't beleive how little i've heard about this with all of the time and reading spent. this should maybe be a seperate thread sometime b/c it sounds like there's alot to learn here. with that said, i do have plans for some kind of exhaust system. i've seen many on here and am going to discuss the best approach with my contractor. i am so fortunate to have you all to help with this b/c this is something that would be much harder to do once the room is built out. right now, it seems very easy as my basement is a walkout and i'll probably have many options here. thank you!!

As to the flush front glass pane to wall interface, I wouldn't suggest using drywall mud to fill the gap. It will crack in time with natural movement of the home and as the tank settles. You may want to consider using some very exact measurements and trim out the inside area of the opening with some hardwood to give you a hard surface. Running the sheet-rock edge up to the tank is not a good idea in regards to strength as well as moisture penetration. With the wood surface next to the tank and with tight tolerances, a simple bead of silicone would fill the thin gap for a finished look. Personally, I like the picture frame look, though.

- great. this one's going in "The File". completely agree and will take that approach.

- weatherson, i really appreciate your input and time here. i'm honored, actually
~~~~~~~~~
jarhead:
Trust me, Weatherson knows what he's talking about! If you havent seen his tank thread, you should!

- I am proud to say that I have indeed read the thread. in fact, i spent a good deal of the past few weeks reading every single post of that monster. it was up to 115 pages when i started and was at 119 when i finished. i figured i couldnt ask for help unless i read his thread, i mean, book.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lon-
On trimming around the tank here are my plans.. since the drywall is 1/2" thicker than the wall and you cannot make that flush I will do something like Weatherson said. I will trim the tank out setting the trim on the drywall this will leave a 1/2" gab between the glass and the trim. in that gab I will cut a piece of 1/2 x 3/4 pine trim (They have this at Lowes and Home Depot) to slide in that gab. It will fit flush against the trim and the glass. This piece should not be noticeable at all.

- Hey Lon, thanks for the input. I'm a little confused, do you have any pics of what you did here? maybe its on your thread. i'll check. thanks.

- thanks to all for the input. like i said, i need to get the tank this week. am trying to meet with the contractor this week as well since he's starting one week from today.

- another topic came up in another thread that I was hoping to get some input on: I have about 100lbs of live rock in my temporary setup that i will be using in the new tank, in addition to some base rock I'm going to buy for added flitration. my question is around the current live rock and something called "cooking" that i've read. i have this rock but i dont think its "clean" for a new tank. first of all, i had some read algae outbreaks before I took down the previsou tank. this, i'm assuming, is still present in the LR. second, when i oringially started the last tank with this rock, i cured the rock right in the tank to start the cycle. one mistake i made back then was that i did a very, very poor job of scrubbing the rock when it arrived from the supplier. as a result, there was SO much dieoff in the tank that I have this feeling my LR is covered with way too much detritus. i want to remove this before adding to my new tank.

Any ideas on a plan to clean and transfer the rock to the new tank? What's this "cooking" idea?

Thanks!
Bryan

[jarhed]

Bryan,

I used a 60-gal acrylic tank for my sump. It's working beautifully and a $7.00 hole saw purchased from Lowes is all it took to drill it for the bulkheads. I bought a piece of clear plexi (About $39) from HD and cut it to make my baffles.

I highly recommend the drilling idea. I have my back drilled for a closed loop and the bottom drilled for my single center overflow. I dont want any machinery in the tank because I want it to look uncluttered and you and I both know how suction cups fail and leave you with a huge sandstorm when the powerhead falls to the bottom.

Another reason to drill the tank for an overflow is the FACT that overflow siphon tubes WILL fail. I just found a huge bubble in mine last night at 1:00am. I caught it JUST IN TIME before the siphon totally failed and the tank overflowed. I'll be able to sleep at night with the 180 drilled.

As far as external pumps go, I just learned a valuable lesson yesterday. I fired up my return pump, a GenX PCX-40, and it was WAY TOO LOUD!!! I'm buying a Pan World pump today to replace it. Only 90watts and supposedly quieter than an Iwaki. Even my two closed loop pumps are quiet, an Iwaki MD30 RXT and a Little Giant 4MDQ-SC. I chose them for the price (a BAD idea) but lucked out with the Iwaki. The Little Giant could be a little quieter I guess. I still have another Little Giant 4MDQX-SC for my Beckett skimmer. I hope it's not too loud.

[bheron]

jarhead
"I used a 60-gal acrylic tank for my sump. It's working beautifully and a $7.00 hole saw purchased from Lowes is all it took to drill it for the bulkheads. I bought a piece of clear plexi (About $39) from HD and cut it to make my baffles. "

- I'm planning on using my 75 gal glass as my sump. I'd have to purchase another tank to do this. my 75 is AGA so i'd have to contact them to find out if it can be drilled. they're great to work with ive found.

"I highly recommend the drilling idea. I have my back drilled for a closed loop and the bottom drilled for my single center overflow. I dont want any machinery in the tank because I want it to look uncluttered and you and I both know how suction cups fail and leave you with a huge sandstorm when the powerhead falls to the bottom."

- yep, i hear ya on the suction cup thing. drives me NUTS! am def not going to do a closed loop and am going to be fine with the two powerheads in there.

"Another reason to drill the tank for an overflow is the FACT that overflow siphon tubes WILL fail. I just found a huge bubble in mine last night at 1:00am. I caught it JUST IN TIME before the siphon totally failed and the tank overflowed. I'll be able to sleep at night with the 180 drilled."

- yea, ive heard this alot. i've been using a HOB for years now and have never had one single problem. i went with a Lifereef for specifically that reason. with that said, the risk is still imminent and staring right at me while i sleep at night! if i'm going to get the drilled tank i will then also go with a built in overflow and abandon the HOB. i've been lucky so far i guess.

"As far as external pumps go, I just learned a valuable lesson yesterday. I fired up my return pump, a GenX PCX-40, and it was WAY TOO LOUD!!! I'm buying a Pan World pump today to replace it. Only 90watts and supposedly quieter than an Iwaki. Even my two closed loop pumps are quiet, an Iwaki MD30 RXT and a Little Giant 4MDQ-SC. I chose them for the price (a BAD idea) but lucked out with the Iwaki. The Little Giant could be a little quieter I guess. I still have another Little Giant 4MDQX-SC for my Beckett skimmer. I hope it's not too loud."

thanks for the feedback. havent heard much about the pan worlds.


- ok, so you all have me start to rethink my choice of myoverflow/sump/return system. If I can A) get a reliable external pump at a good price and B) drill my 75g for the sump, I think I'll spend the extra $250 on a drilled display tank.

any other takers?

[jarhed]

Hey Bryan,

If you can get the 75 drilled, all the better. If not, you can go with any good reliable submersible pump that will give you the flow you need. You can even use several outputs from the return pump as replacements for the powerheads by splitting up the return into several over-the-back outputs. So, you may be able to get away without drilling the sump at all.

I have a friend who put a 180 into the foyer wall of the house he rebuilt. He's using a huge Rio for his return (I almost choked when I saw it, he's in for trouble in the future!!!) but you may want to look at Quiet One pumps. Never seen one firsthand but they are submersible.

[Im Lon 2]

Originally posted by bheron
[B]- Hey Lon, thanks for the input. I'm a little confused, do you have any pics of what you did here? maybe its on your thread. i'll check. thanks.
Thanks!
Bryan

I have not gotten that far yet. I plan on doing all the Mud and taping all at one time in the basement so I will have the mess 1 time. So I don't have pic's yet, and quite a ways away.

So all I can do is draw it in paint.


Hope this helps some.

[bheron]

Jarhead - thanks for the info. Now get back to your setup!

Lonnie, that's a HUGE help! Thanks. I know what you're getting at now.


UPDATE: my contractor called to say he's now 2 weeks behind in his jobs, which means my start date goes from 6/13 to 6/27. Not too bad since it gives me more time to plan!!

[bheron]

I posted this a few posts back but I think it got overlooked.

Any ideas:

I have about 100lbs of live rock in my temporary setup that i will be using in the new tank, in addition to some base rock I'm going to buy for added flitration. my question is around the current live rock and something called "cooking" that i've read. i have this rock but i dont think its "clean" for a new tank. first of all, i had some read algae outbreaks before I took down the previsou tank. this, i'm assuming, is still present in the LR. second, when i oringially started the last tank with this rock, i cured the rock right in the tank to start the cycle. one mistake i made back then was that i did a very, very poor job of scrubbing the rock when it arrived from the supplier. as a result, there was SO much dieoff in the tank that I have this feeling my LR is covered with way too much detritus. i want to remove this before adding to my new tank.

Any ideas on a plan to clean and transfer the rock to the new tank? What's this "cooking" idea?

[jarhed]

Originally posted by bheron
Jarhead - thanks for the info. Now get back to your setup!

As far as the rock "Cooking" goes, I'm not entirely clear whether thats a reefers term referring to curing the rock in tank or not. Seems to me that if your rock was in an active tank that has finished cycling, you should be good to go to add it.

[Im Lon 2]

I had all my live rock in my 100 gallon sump while setting up the new tank, along with corals and fish. So I could not "cook" the rock. It had some algae on it when moving it to the new tank but with the new setup and all new water it was like a huge water change. with in a week all most all of the algae was gone off the live rock I have had.

I have 240 lbs base rock and 85 lbs live rock 26% live. I went with www.Hirocks.com. I really like the rock and in with in a year I'm hoping it will look like the rest of my live rock now.

I had the base rock and everything in the new tank ready to go then when I was ready to move the sump to the main tank and hook everything up. I hooked up a small power head to move the water from the sump to the display back down to the sump.... A very small Power head (Maxi-Jet 900) I did this over a day or so this is how I acclimated the new water with the sump. then I turned off the small power head, so no water was moving between the new tank and the sump. I then hooked up 2 bigger Power heads in the sump and aimed it at the rock in the sump. I took each piece out of the sump one by one blowing them off getting as much yuck off as possible. Then before turning the sump on to the main tank again I did a water change on the sump. It has been up for almost 4 weeks now and everything is doing great.

How bad is it, and what type of algae do you have? Can you add Macro Algae to the tank to help eat the nutrients that the Micro Algae is eating? This two will help kill of the micro algae Just a thought.


P.S. I'm glad that drawing helps because it hard to explain.

[bheron]

Thanks Lon, I'm going to do the same thing - Hirocks. Get some of the larger ones.

I have red hair algae and its not that bad. I wasnt going to do anything more than what you described above until I read something in another post. I'll have to track it down and ask more on it.

Thanks!

[The Cardinal]

Always a delight to see these kind of projects. Looks very good.

In the beginning of the thread you said you were only going to have easy softies. With the light set up of at least 6x T5 it shouldn´t be a problem to keep more light demanding corals such as sps. Or is this a conscious decision to only keeping soft corals?

[bheron]

Mr M - good catch. yep, thats my goal to keep simpler corals. it's also a coincidence that I think the softies are by far the most beautiful and enjoying to watch! So i'm lucky there. It would be nice to keep my options open, but I'm hoping T5s are the more efficient, easier lighting choice.

[The Cardinal]

I have gone for 6x54w for my tank and I´m very satified with the results. The only drawback might be that the softies are getting a bit too much light... Will be nice to see how your tank will develop, and yes I agree there are too many sps tanks out there

Good luck with your project!

[bheron]

Thanks.

Too much light? Wow. I've heard that before and I guess thats a good thing to have.

Stay tuned to this thread - updates will come.;

[bheron]

Update - its been awhile since the last update but I've actually been busier than ever. I'll have pics posted over the weekend - on sunday.

- I'm getting the tank this weekend!
At the last hour I found a similar tank, different brand, for a much better price, and closer to home! I'm picking it up Sat night and have the people lined up to help me move it. 210g All Glass aquarium, 2 drilled overflows.

Click here for a link to the thread about this one...

- Will be building the stand myself next week. Thanks to everyone, especially Tangboy, I have the plans in place and have spec'd out all the wood. Might start on Monday night if possible.

- Contractor is supposed to start the folowing Monday. My goal is to have the tank and stand up in place so he can build around it.


So, check back on Sunday, hopefully, for an update on the move as well as plenty of pictures!

[bheron]

Update:

The tank is in. Well, my basement on the floor, that is. I'll have some pics later tonight or tomorrow but wanted to give the update.

My brother even picked up the tank FOR me so all I had to do was call and buy the tank over the phone and wait at my house. Then two other guys showed up and the 4 of us moved it into the basement in 5 mins, with one break. I was amazed at how intimidating the job looked compared to how easy it was!!!

Pics later.

[ribs]

I skimmed your thread, nice!
Now that the tank is there things step up a notch. I like how you're going about it, and posting it (the process) and the reasoning along the way.

....in other words, just tagging along

[ssbreef]

very very NICE! Thanks for sharing! I wish I had started up a post like this before I put in my inwall, It would have saved me a lot of time and MONEY!
I don't know if you mentioned it already but in case I missed it, what kind of skimmer will you be using?

[bheron]

Thanks for the feedback all! Yea, the "post as you go" approach is taking a little longer time but it has its benefits.

I'm posting a large update in the enxt few mins.

ssbreef - "what kind of skimmer will you be using?"

- I have a Euroreef, but you know, I can never remember which one it is!! I'll have to check at home. Its one of their smaller ones, rated for 90-100 gallons. Worked great on my 75 with a medium bioload. And, for now, I'm not upgrading. Eventually, especially when the bioload is up, I'll invest in a monster I would even love to learn how to DIY it.

Your question actually brings me to a question:

- how do you know you need a bigger/better skimmer? If youre skimmers producing waste on a regular basis, how do you know if could produce more if it was bigger/more efficient?

[bheron]

Ok, I'v been promising pics and updates, so here we go:


First, I got the tank last saturday. As mentioned, I found one for a much better price and a much better location (details below).

Second, I got the tanked moved into the basement!

Third, I started building the stand (below).

The goal is to have the stand built and sitting on top of it for when the contractor comes on Monday (IF he comes).

I'll post details below....

[bheron]

Ok, this is a 210 All Glass Aquarium. I've spent months and months researching the tank itself.

Once I decided on the size I went back and forth between Acrylic and Glass -- for all the same reasons as everyone else. I decided on Glass, for both the cost and the scratching issues. I'll still always be worried about the durability.

Custom acrylic tanks in the 200g size were going anywhere from 1200 to 2000, and that didnt include the shipping. That was also an issue - all of the acrylic tanks I reviewed would have to be shipped and that added like an extra $400 at least.

The glass tanks I looked at were less. Custom glass tanks, with the exception of Glass Cages, were also in the $1500 range. I found a great, reputable local builder but it was like $1700. I could easily pick it up.

In the end I decided on a 220 gallon perfecto from a sLFS (somewhat Local Fish Store ). They were asking $745 for undrilled and $945 for "reef ready" which is 4 holes drilled in the bottom.

Then, at the last hour, I found a 210 gallon All Glass Aquarium at a rLFS (REALLY local fish store) for $649 undrilled and $699 drilled!!!

It really worked out great b/c my brother had the truck that was going to ship it. And the LFS, while 45 mins from my house, was only 5 from his. So instead of him going 45 mins to my house, then 2 hours past to get the original tank, he just picked up this one right by his house - - I didnt even have to drive down and get it!!

So, I simply paid for it over the phone, and by the time he drove over they had it waiting on the curb for him. (For you locals, the tank was bought from The Hidden Reef -- they were great). The tank was in his truck in like 5 mins. All I had to do was wait!

I had 2 other guys coming over tohelp move it so I had the easiest job by far (see later). It was like I was getting free shipping on a tank!

Ok, here's some pics of the tank.

My brothers OJ Bronco parked in my driveway



Tank in the back



It was at this point that I really understood how huge this beast is...



My only shipping cost: letting my older brother ride around on my lawn tractor: priceless



"Some things money cant buy. For everything else, there's a kid in everyone."

[bheron]

Ok, now for the move. Unfortunately I have to say that I didnt have an extra person there to take pics. I wisely chose the day for this as the same night that my wife was out for the night.

Genius

Anyway, let me setup the stage....

Just from picking up the tank a bit in the Bronco, I could feel the weight. The people at THR swore it could be done by two people. It took only 1 guy with a hand truck to load it. BUt this thing looked HEAVY!!!

Essentially we have to move the tank from the driveway, aruond the backyard, and right into the walkout. Luckily there were no steps involved, however, my backyard has a pretty steep drop on the one side.

We decided to wait for the other two suckers to arrive to help move it. I dont have pics of the move, put I took pics of the "Path of Destruction" that would be our path into the basement....


From the driveway to the backyard through the gate...



The start of the hill...



Along the side of the hill....



And under the deck to the walkout on the left...



Sorry for the sideways pic, but heres the door to the basement...



So, that was the path. By the time we finished a few beers and laughing at the task at hand, we looked around for any sign of my wife and went for it.

SURPRISE.....

...this is surprise #1 of the my entire experience on this thread: it was SOOOOO easy!! I was amazed with 4 people how easy it was to move this monster. The guy at THR was right. In fact, the entire time I kept commenting that I wasnt really doing anything at all. I think, b/c of the hill, most of the weight was on one guy. We had to stop only once b/c it hurt our hands. But the entire trip took almost as long to walk it - about 3 mins. We had to let only 2 guys take it through the door but that was no problem!!

I racked my brain on how to do this for weeks and when it finally came, I was amazed at how it went.

[bheron]

Here's the baby, I mean, baby monster, as she sits in my basement right now. Did I mention how large this thing is?



When my wife finally came home her comment was "now I know what to bury you in."

I forgot to put the specs of the tank above (will edit), but the tank is:

72.5 long, 24.5 wide, and 29.5 high. I really wanted a high tank b/c of the look.

This the the 210 MF model by AGA. "MF" is for the built in Mega Flows as you can see below. I've always used HOBs but, based alot on feedback from the forum here, I decided to go for the drilled....



Here's the tank mounted on my wall...

[bheron]

Now, a close 2nd to the tank move was the time I spent planning and comtemplating the stand.

I decided way back to build my own. And, thanks solely to people here on this forum, and expecially TangBoy, I came up with solid plans to DIY.

I have to say, the only reason I had a remote chance of getting this to work was the incessant planning, questioning, and research I did. I have very little experience building this stuff, but when I heard how important it was that the stand is level, I started to worry.

Nevertheless, SURPRISE #2 arrived here. Once I started, I almost finished the whole stand in about 90 mins. I stopped partially through, mostly b/c my wife was pi**ed about the sawing and drilling sounds coming out of the basement at midnight.

I'm about 1/2 way through. Here's pics of the progress as it stands today...

I bought the wood from Home Depot and spent about an hour picking out each piece, inspecting it for straightness. It really was a task, but by the end I was a pro at it.

Ok, not having a truck to move the wood, I somehow got 14 2x4x108's into my Toyota Camry!



This thing is like a pickup to me. Always has. I was even able to close the trunk!



(note to self: dont show wife this shot)

I'll post more detailed plans of the stand later, but basically I used almost exact versions of alot of people's stands on here, with some input and help from Tangboy.

Here's the bottom framing done first:



Afraid my measurements were off, I was relieved when I put the frame on top of the 210 and it fit perfectly...



I really did measure twice and cut once. At one time it saved me. I'm sure it will again.

Building the first upright...



Placing it on the frame...



I borrowed my friends chop saw that I used once before in my life. I was amazed at how good this thing made me look! Straight cuts and corners --- pretty much...



Now I'm rolling!

I threw up the other upright with much more confidence and then the 2x6 horizontal brace...



This was the big test for eveness. I just threw on the level and was pretty surprised at what I found:

Almost completely level. What do you think?





I have to say, I couldve had this done in 3 hours if I had the time. And the bottom line is: preparation and planning. B/c I did so much of it, it was like I did it before.

Well, thats as far as I got. I'll be away all weekend so I wont have another crack at it until Sunday. If I can finish it and get someone to help me move it onto the stand, I'll have it ready on schedule for Monday. (now what's the chances that my contractor will delay the start, yet again?)