Let me see you guts

[Marko9]

As some know by now, I am designing my new 180. I even made my first purchase for it.

I will be doing a 72 x 24 x24 with a stand and canopy. I am looking for some ideas for my guts.

I would like to open this up for pictures, dicussions, and debate what worked for you and what didn't.

I was thinking I would do a sump much like on Melev's page here
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html

I was thinking I would do a 36 x 18 x18 sump. The H & S has a footprint of 9 x 16, so I was thinking I would have a 18 inch section for my skimmer, a 10 inch section for my refugium, which would leave a 8 inch section for my return which will be feeding a reeflo dart probably.

A couple questions: Sump in the middle with the Co2 tank and CA reactor on the left that could dissapate in the skimmer return, or sump all the way to the left with all the other equipment in the middle.

Here is a picture of my DIY sump on my 90 when I set it up in May.


I am open to as much help as you guys have to offer.

Thanks

[Marko9]

Hmmm.... Acylic or glass? I think a 40 breeder is really close to those dimensions

[melev]

I wouldn't recommend a Sequence Dart in such a small sump. The pump moved 3000 to 3600gph and that means water will be careening through your sump. You'll never stop the microbubbles, especially in a return section that is 8" wide.

For a 180g tank, a Mag 12 or Mag 18 with 1.5" plumbing is sufficient. Or a Panworld if you prefer external. Try to keep it around 1000 to 1200gph worth of flow.

If you have the space, I would put the Calcium reactor in the return section mainly because if it leaks, water stays in the system and off the floor.

I would stick a longer sump in there, mainly for travel time. You've got the space under a 6' tank. Use it.

[Marko9]

Hmmm. I never thought of putting my calcium reactor in my sump. I have a mag 9.5 right now and I was trying to cut down on the heat. I guess the eheim pump that is on my PM reactor doesn't care either way.

How would you design a sump/refugium for a tank that will be drilled for two 1 inch returns? I also know that my chiller will be around 3-4 feet away next to the stand.

I am definitely listening and open to suggestions. Thanks

[melev]

Same sump, but make it 48" long instead of 36" long. You'd still have room for the calcium reactor to be external, or you could put a reservoir in the extra space for top off.

The Panworld pump would fit, provide enough flow to get the water up to the tank and keep the pump external. The return section would be larger. Another similar pump is the red one by Coralife, which looks just like a Panworld to me. I would get a pump that has a good warranty & reputation, doesn't use a lot of power, and doesn't push too much flow through the sump.

In a few days, the next issue of Reefkeeping Online is coming out, and there's an article about sumps that should be in it.

[Myka]

Originally posted by Marko9
Hmmm.... Acylic or glass? I think a 40 breeder is really close to those dimensions

40B is 36x18x17"

[Marko9]

Sweet. I love cool articles. I know that there is a lot more to sumps than I know. I knew about too much water though the sump, I guess I was thinking I would lose some through my different plumbing as such.

I think a bigger sump would be nice anyways. How would you divide them up? If I am going with a smaller pump, would it better to have the refugium in the middle. Can you explain the benifits of one method than the other. Thanks

[melev]

The reason why I like to divide the refugium and skimmer sections is because I find that it is better to regulate the flow to each zone rather than have all of the water race along at the same rate. The refugium seems to do better with less flow, while the skimmer needs more of the raw (display) water to extract DOCs from the system.

I ran a sump for 9 months with the water flowing from skimmer to refugium to return, and it simply did not work well for my system at all. Macro algae didn't grow well at all, and the skimmer didn't seem to do much either. Once I switched it out with a different sump layout, things improved greatly.

You will definitely lose some flow through your plumbing, but 50%? No way. Better to get the right size pump. You've not listed the amount of drains your tank will have nor their size.

[Marko9]

I plan on having it drilled for one 1 & 1/2 inch bulkhead drain. I think that will cover my needs. Below the tank, I was going to divide it by a T, That would allow mt to control the flow into the sumps compartments by the use of ball valves.

I took a look at the panworld pumps and that seems better suited since I am not doing a closed loop. I was going to use the dart because my other skimmer choice was a Bermuda that needed a bigger feed pump, so I was going to use an all in one. Since i don't need a pump that big any more, I guess I over looked downsizing my needs.

I have not put the final order in, so I am flexible to ideas. Thanks

[Rekonn]

Marko9, have you given any thought to an auto top off unit and resevoir? A 180 may evap 2 gallons a day, and that'll be a pain to replenish by hand.

[ret25yo]

someone say GUTS???''

[kdblove_99]

I also went with that melev design when i had my 180.

I bought a used standard 55 gallon tank off craigslist and siliconed in my baffles. I use a Oceanrunner 3500 for my return super quiet and more efficient than an Eheim.

I now use the sump on my 60 cube.



[IMG][/IMG]

[Marko9]

Davey, How do you top off? I have a 55 in the garage that I originally saved for that reason.

Rekonn, I have thought about that. I was thinking of having a small resovoir either along the back of the sump or next to to it. I will need to figure it out, but I know that I can not do a full RODI unit. I also like gravity fed top offs. I was thinking of a 10 gallon acrylic for that purpose on a shelf above my refugium. I would also use that ledge to attach my refugium light to the underside.

[kdblove_99]

Manually

I did have a Tunze top off when i had the 180 and it was in my house, sump under stand. But that Tunze pump was quite loud so i sold it.

[rpeeples]

Originally posted by Rekonn
Marko9, have you given any thought to an auto top off unit and resevoir? A 180 may evap 2 gallons a day, and that'll be a pain to replenish by hand.

I second that. This was one area, when designing my 225, I did not take into consideration. Luckily I had some experienced hobbiest around me who steered me in this direction.

[rpeeples]

My stand is 47 inches tall. Along the front is 72". The sump (black box) actually has a refugium built into it. I can control the flow through the sump and refugium independantly as Melv referenced above. I am working on consolodating my wiring and currently building the wood skin to wrap around the steel frame.

[mile sq. reefer]

pic isnt working.

[Rekonn]

Where are you getting your water from if not RODI?

Here's an old pic of the 40g breeder sump I have under my 90g, but it'll still give the basic idea. From right to left, 11g resevoir, protein skimmer, refugium, then return. My JBJ auto topoff senses water in the return section with the first float switch, and adds from the resevoir as needed. The second float switch is in the reservoir and prevents the MJ1200 from going kaput if the reservoir is too low on water.

About once a week, I hook up a tube from the RODI under my kitchen sink and fill the resevoir. I had a sheet of acrylic cut to fit over the resevoir and hooked up a float valve. That way I don't cause spills when I forget to check the reservoir during refills.

My sump is tall enough, that even if the ATO got stuck in the ON position, the 11g would not overflow the sump. If I get a power failure and the return pump turns off, the sump is tall enough to take water from the display until it hits the anti-siphon hole in the return. If BOTH of those events happen... then I get 10g of water on the floor.

I see you're considering an external pump because of the heat you get from your current Mag 9.5. I'd recommend getting a better submersible pump insead, like an Oceanrunner. I used to have a Panworld 50PX-X, great pump. It was smaller, much quieter, cheaper and just as powerful as the Iwaki it replaced. After moving, I set up my 90 using an Oceanrunner 2500 submersible. The OR pump is significantly quieter still.

[rpeeples]

Originally posted by ret25yo
someone say GUTS???''

Looks like an excellent setup in the making.

[Marko9]

Rekonn- Sorry about the misunderstanging. I use RODI water, but mine is set up in the garage. I want to do some type of raised resovoir that will allow it to be gravity fed into the sump hooked up to a kent float.
I am really undecided about how I should do my return pump. I was thinking of an external pump, but I still like the ease of a submersable pump. I have my mag pump that I can start out with, but I was also thinking oceanrunner or ehein down the road.

[jimdogg187]

I went with a Melve style too but made my own twist. Instead of having three compartments (fuge, skimmer return), I run my skimmer externally and made a really big fuge.

[Marko9]

Thanks Jim. PM me when you get back from Tokyo. I would love to get together and go over some things. I've always like your sump set up.

[rdmpe]

My #1 piece of advice, for ZERO microbubbles and ZERO overflow / drain noise, set your drains up using this method
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=344892
Mine has been running that way flawlessly for over two years. I am running a dart on my 180 with only a 25 gallon rubbermaid sump tub that doesn't even have any baffles in it.

Here's my closed loop. It is buried under my DSB.

[Marko9]

Thank you for thye advice on the tank. Can I see you sump setup as I am not doing a closed loop.

[kdblove_99]

Jim does have a sweet set up and he will let you know he loves Plumbing and is good at it also!

Think he likes Plumbing as much as he likes skimmers

ALot of nice set-ups guys!

Mark here is a show me your sump thread if you havent seen it

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1281575