Is it possible to have too much Chaeto?

[tqreefrookie]

I have a 37 gallon tank that overflows into a ten gallon sump. The sump is 90 percent filled with Chaeto. I know Chaeto removes Nitrates but can too much Chaeto remove the good stuff? BTW, the tanks is stil cycling.

[Snowboarda42]

No it won't remove the good stuff, but the point of chaeto is so you can harvest it and thus remove the nitrates.

Some will say that you need a softball size, other a basketball size. Personally, I don't let it get past a softball. And keep it round shaped so it can tumble.

Theres a thread on Reef Frontiers dot com about too much chaeto. I actually started it there lol.

[tylorarm]

I got mine too big as i was preparing to switch to a new and bigger refugium. It crashed and melted away very quickly, and my nitrates shot up like never before. Prior i had always harvested regularly so it moved around in the flow. I won't make that mistake again. From zero nitrates to around 50ppm in about two days.

[tqreefrookie]

Snowboard,
So what you are saying is getting rid of some on a weekly basis is like getting rid of an old dirty spong? If that is the case then I need to remove some then, cause it is definitely bigger than a softball.

[tylorarm]

Definitely prune it, that's the way you export the nitrates

[xtm]

I've always wondered about this. My thinking was "why reduce the nitrate eating machine when it's doing its job?" and "the more the better right?" I have a basketball-sized clump in my sump right now.

[tqreefrookie]

I was thinking inline with XTM when this question came up. If you fertilize a plant and it gets bigger, does it means it extract more nutrients, right? Anyways i'll prune it to play it safe.

[Kannin]

Mine triples in size every three weeks. I prune it back to soft ball size.

[jeweldamsel]

Trim it and sell or trade it to the LFS's.

[greenmonkey51]

This don't make any sense, by removing the chaeto you remove nitrates. The chaeto uses the nitrogen to help it grow. Theres no reason to remove any chaeto unless its just generally overgrown in the refuge.

[Frick-n-Frags]

yes,
growing = storing nutrients
harvesting = REMOVING nutrients


also remember, any population in a closed system will grow until it runs out of something it needs. If you wait long enough, your chaeto wad HAS to crash, so you HAVE to maintain a mid cycle state of "less than"critical mass.

your game is to keep the wad small enough to be safe from crashing, yet big/robust enough to have good positive nutrient uptake. fluffing it up once a day(you would not believe what awesome filter floss chaeto wads are) pulling out stagnated/yellowed/dying areas, knocking any scum micros off etc

or having it tumble well in its area, whatever, keeping good circulation and dust off.......


edit: let me amend the "has to crash eventually" to "has to crash eventually if left to unrestricted growth" it could hit other physical limitations, like lets say outgrows its small area. this may be more a case of where the stuff pushed to the bottom or lifted out of the water dies at a steady rate, thus limiting the population

you will get zero net nutrient binding (it dies as fast as it grows)
but no crash because it is being held at less than critical mass.
point is, this situation is still doing you no good.

[fambrough]

greenmonkey51 has got it right. Don't worry about it! This is not a big deal. As long as the stuff is not dying, let it grow as big as you want and cut it back when you feel like it. My refugium is absolutely packed with the stuff. I cut it back once every other month or so. I never get so much that any dies. Also, it is full of amphipods and micro starts and other small fauna. Baseball, softball, basketball; these are really inacurate and unhelpful measurements. Everything depends upon the amount of nutrients for the available and potential growth of Chaeto--and just think of the amount factors here--how is the rest of the tank processing, holding or releasing nutirents?, how much to you feed? what livestock do you have?

Let it do what it's supposed to do: take up nutirents and act as a critical part of the refugium. Also, I have to laugh at the notion that tumbling will help. Forget about it. Who on earth has actually done a controlled study to see that tumbling excellerates growth (i.e. nutrient uptake). Nutrients are gong to pass through you refugium/sump, the chaeto will grow and fix/use those nutrients. And chances are you have plenty. Keep an eye on it, that's all.

[sabbath]

The tumbling gets the light all around it so the bottom does not die off or slow growth there.
Mine doesn't tumble so I turn it over a every few days. It grows much faster when I do this.

[fras]

chaeto does not die as fast as it grows, if it died as fast as it grows then it would never increase in mass.

A larger equally lit surface area of algae is more efficient than a smaller equally lit area. The best method is to only harvest when it out grows the space you have given it.

[capn_hylinur]

what is important here is that the nitrates and phophates are only absorbed by the cheato. In order to rid the entire water column of them you must pull out the cheato on a regular basis(harvest it)

As healthy as it looks I remove some of it weekly:

[capn_hylinur]

Here is a very relevant thread to this discussion:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1258724

[fambrough]

That's a good thread. You're going to have to harvest cheato from any refugium. The stuff grows like gang busters. Tumble away, if you like. My refugium does not require it at all. I think the point gets lost as details and theory overtake us. Yes, harvest the cheato, but at no point in it's growing cycle is there too much ...until it starts to dye. At that point, you've probably been doing other things wrong because you're not paying attention.


I won't argue it anymore, but until someone shows me a controlled analysis which demonstrates a decreased rate of growth or nutrient uptake from the water column in direct relation to the enlarging mass of the cheato as it relates to the volume of water, I'm going to tell you it ain't no big deal.

capn_hylinur, I just love your refugium. That thing is awesome!