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#1
09/22/2007, 05:29 PM
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Fish Dying Left And Right!!! Help!
Im really at a loss here, and cant figure it out for the life of me. My fish are dying left and right!
My tanks been up for 6 months now. I had a pair of ocellaris clowns that were in there for close to 3 months, and a tangora goby. Some tank info before I get into it. 24G AP with MH 28LBs of LR 20LBs of Sand Mj900 in place of stock pump AquaClear 30 powerhead in display Fish: NONE ALL DIED! Coral: Torch Micros Zoas Acans Monti Cap CUC: 5 blue leg hermits 5 Nassarius Snails 5 Astrea 1 Margarita Misc: Cleaner Shrimp Ultra Corcea Clam Hawaii-an Feather Duster Current Params: SG: 1.024 temp: 80 ammo- 0 nitrite/ate- 0 phosphate - 0 PH - 8.2 So it started a month back. My tangora goby died. I figured it was because food wasn't reaching it since the clowns got most of it and very few scraps made it down. Eh no big deal i messed up. So a day or two after one of the clowns started acting funny, started swimming near the back of the tank, up and down the false wall. I figure again just a clown being a clown. A day passed and his color was fading fast, looked really pale. I fed them and headed to work. Came home to find him dead stuck to the powerhead. I did a water change and ran some carbon. Few days later the remaining clown started doing the same thing. Couple of days passed and so did he. Did another water change and let the tank sit til two days ago. Its been 2 weeks since the death of the last clown. So i figured im gonna get a damsel and try to see whats going on. I know I shouldnt have done it, because i've done it in the past and the fu*ker lived forever and was a pain in the *** to take out, but I was willing to take that risk. So I acclimated him about 4 days ago and in he went. Happy swimming around, eating, acting totally normal. I woke up this morning and his color was gone, came home from breakfast.......DEAD!!!! Checked the water... and its fine. The shrimp is fine, the clam looks great. The coral are looking awesome as well. What is it thats killing these fish? I have a pair of True Percs on order. I really wanna get this figured out before I put anything else in. HELP!!!! |
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#2
09/22/2007, 05:43 PM
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Presuming all you test equipment is fine, you likely have some contamination from an outside source. I had a friend who had a similar issue and traced it back to a rag he used to wipe the top that his wife used (without his knowledge) to clean down the counter. She had cleaning solution on the rag. He accidently got it wet cleaning the top and contaminated the tank. In the end he did a complete water change out.
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#3
09/22/2007, 05:43 PM
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I would cancel that order. Something is causing their deaths and bringing more fish in is not the answer. Are you testing for alk and calcium and mag? When is the last time you tested the parameters you listed? How are you testing them? what kits? Did you look the fish over for parasites like isopods?
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#4
09/22/2007, 05:46 PM
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Set up a Q-tank if you cant cancel/hold that order. You need one if you plan on additions.
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#5
09/22/2007, 05:55 PM
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Could be the food, or have you isolated that possibility?
If NH3 was the issue, I would think the shrimp would suffer (I could be wrong). I would buy new food, run tons of carbon and WCs. Are you sure your not getting an NH3 spike after feeding? Just ideas, I hope it works out--very strange indeed. Did recently add anything live that could have introduced infection/infestation? |
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#8
09/22/2007, 07:19 PM
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Sorry didnt list some of those. I havent used anything other than RO water to wipe down the outside of the tank.
SG: 1.024 temp: 80 ammo- 0 nitrite/ate- 0 phosphate - 0 PH - 8.2 these are the tanks stats as of a couple of hours ago. I use Rods Food to feed, been feeding it for a couple of months now. I know its stored proper. I've never seen a nitrate spike. The highest it went once was 10ppm and that was because i was out of town and couldnt do a water change that week. I do a 20% water change every week. I dont test for Ca, Alk, or MG because I dont dose any of it. I just do wc's. I am using API test kits. Which are less than 6 months old, and the tests are done with lab like precision (pre-med, lots of lab time lol). I did see white spots on the last clown before it died. They werent on him when I lifted him out. I can say that i've been lucky with pulling them out on time. I guess they've all croaked right before I got home. Its wierd. The damsel was a run of the mill blue damsel and didnt have a single spot on him. Not in the tank nor once dead. |
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#10
09/22/2007, 08:43 PM
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there may not be enough surface water agitation, and there could be a low O2 level in the water. my brother tossed on a air pump and a wooden defuser, or a skimmer, and now he has no prob keeping fish in his nano.
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#12
09/22/2007, 08:53 PM
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Where are you getting your water? Do you have a Chlorine test kit? If not get one because it sounds like a possibility and has been the culprit more often than not in widespread fish deaths in tanks. Not all RO/DI are able to strip out Chloramine from tap water and if the resin is bad then forget it.
__________________
Success is not measured by the person who has the most but by the person that needs the least!! |
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#13
09/22/2007, 09:05 PM
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Can't even guess about why, but what I did when the inhabitants started to die (had once kind of partial tank crash):
- removed all from the tank to the different containers, according to gravity of prognosis. Luckily have a big tank with old water and established biomedia in the sump, just in case, used this water, mixed with new. - Did massive water changes in these vessels daily, for the first days, frequently changed carbon, added Purigen, just in case. - disassembled the tank of death, cleaned thoroughly, and didn't used it for more, than a half of year. Easy to say, of course, you may not have a spare tank for a change... Just a thought. |
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#15
09/25/2007, 02:19 AM
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The cleaner would have suffered from O2 loss as well right? I know its not suface aggitation. There is a good amount of that. Both of my loclines are breaking the surface. Even the powerhead in the display creates surface aggitation.
Same with chlorine. It would have caused a negative effect on other inhabitants. Im tellin ya guys the reef is thriving. Just the fish arent...... Recently I did a water change checked levels again before and after perfect. sg,ammo,trite,trate,phate,ph,temp. |
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#16
09/25/2007, 03:18 AM
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Do you run Carbon all the time? If not, You might want to try that? Could be chemicals in the water. Maybe the coral chemical warfare? Sometimes can't test for all the stuff in the water. Carbon should help with some of them. I run a carbon and phos reactor. And I have notice a huge different in my tank. Just a suggestion from a noob
 Good luck, I hope you find the problem! |
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#18
09/27/2007, 06:26 AM
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Why is everyone ignoring the fact that corals are much more sensitive to EVRYTHING! Well, everything except fish diseases and 02....
__________________
Some people say, "How can you live without knowing?" I do not know what they mean. I always live without knowing. That is easy. How you get to know is what I want to know. - Richard Feynman |
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#19
09/27/2007, 07:22 AM
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maybe the food is bad.
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#20
09/27/2007, 07:42 AM
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What is wrong with anybody ignoring anything?
 They post only what comes in mind, what can help with the problem. By the way, in my humble experience, very few corals are more sensitive, than fish, really. I can make a long list what reacted on what and how, with illustrations, but it takes a lot of time, and will not help you in any way  I'm not aggravating situation, quite opposite, and sincerely. If oxygen, there are Salifert oxygen test kits. Another way is to drop an air stone, connected to a small air pump, for a few hours, and see, if situation improves. If the fish is sick, the possible situations: - you bought the sick fish, it infected all other fish and the tank, pathogen continue to survive in the tank - the tank could be used for invertebrates only for a very long time, hoping that eventually pathogen will die. Or tank setup could be disassembled, and disinfected. - same, only the pathogen will die in a month and a half (guess, based on Ich, no personal experience, sorry) - then just wait and vacuum the bottom regularly, I would not exclude accumulation of the toxins in the tank, you never know, and if everything else will be excluded, you know what to do. I'm not rushing you in any way, it's your tank. Good luck! |
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#21
09/27/2007, 08:20 AM
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I would have thought that he would have seen the effects of the lack of O2 sooner than now. If he had the tank up with fish for at least 3 months, wouldn't he have already seen the effects within a few days of putting them in?
__________________
i need a real job so i can support myself in this hobby.... |
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#22
09/27/2007, 08:48 AM
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One thought that came to mind is clowns are very sensative to brooklynellosis, One of my clowns got it and darn near wiped my whole tank out of inhabitants until I figured it out. Where they losing color and acting lazy and confused?
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#23
09/27/2007, 08:55 AM
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interesting problem... sorry to hear about your fish losses.
ok, parameters are correct, but that's the usual suspects.. I'm guessing its more on the 'unusual' side, as opposed to something that's garden-variety. I don't have experience with hardiness of corals, but we have inverts in the tank which will act like a canary in a coal mine, so to speak. I'm not usually good with diagnosing the problem, I'm usually better with diagnosing what's NOT the problem. Here's what we have: if cleaner shrimp, feather dusters, and clam are doing fine, I don't think it's any foreign substances, like chemicals from cleaners or something. Otherwise, that's what it sounded like to me. but your cleaner would have been 1st to die, and the damsel would have lived longer. same with normal water parameters. inverts would have perished first. so it sounds like your test kits are spot on to report everything normal. Temperature swings would have hurt the clam, and the corals, as well. Not wild 3:00 am temp swings, or anything. pH would have hurt the clam, I believe. What's your alk? do you have a UV sterilizer? you're sure no visible symptoms on your fish? if it's bacteria or a virus, it's a nasty one. Anything that kills a damsel in 4 days deserves respect. I have a damsel in my sump, dual 700 gph intakes can't even take that guy down. so the fish deaths were over a period of days, right? Maybe check your coral species for anything that could be releasing something into the water? this is just a guess, I don't know corals to that extent. Otherwise, I'd keep checking your ammonia. Your 6-month tank may not be stable yet, I hate to say. you may still be having ammonia spikes, which are quickly consumed by Nitrite (aerobic?) bacteria, but might be causing damage during a 6 month period. meanwhile, if you have no fish, you aren't feeding, nothing crapping, so there may not be any ammonia spike if there's no fish. Sort of like Chicken and the Egg. sorry I'm not more help... Just keep up the H2O changes, and hold off on the clowns, I'd suggest. I'll be tagging along this thread. Interested to hear any progresss or new info. G. then again, your corals and inverts would be getting slammed by NH3, as well. Interesting problem. |
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#24
09/27/2007, 08:58 AM
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Could be your acclimation is not right and it stresses the fish from the start?
What is your acclimation procedure for new fish? Do you drip acclimate? For how long? You might want to check the water in the bags the fish come in before starting acclimation. I tested the water in a bag from the LFS and it was 1.020. Took about an hour to bring that slowly up to 1.025 via drip acclimation. |
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#25
09/27/2007, 03:37 PM
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how big is your tank bc if its under like 120gallons i think 20 gallons a week water change can put the fish under stress and alot of it
also try lowering the temp. to about 76 though i dont think it would kill the fish but 76deg. is more ideal and oyu might want to consider purchasing a uv sterilizer to kill unwated organisms that will attack fish and coral sometimes ex: ich its ideal for a reef and fish only i would recomend it |
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