finally beginning my 480g 5'x5'x30" SPS Reef Tank

[thirschmann]

great... thanks for the advice, I was planning to do some experiments myself but I trust your opinion enough to not waste my time. How would I get in contact with energy? Sorry I'm still fairly new at using Reef Central. I would like to see what his results are.

Have you had any experience with star board? Do you think it would be possible to glue multiple different sized layers together and then shape them with a sander or dremel.

[jnarowe]

probably not much benefit to layering star board. I would guess that if you have a glass bottom tank, there is value in laying in a sheet of PVC, acrylic, star board etc. to protect against breakage.

One thought you might consider is once you have the bottom prepared, to just use various lenth slices of PVC pipe. For instance, I would use 2", 3", 4" slices of 2" and 3" PVC pipe to get the rock up off the bottom and allow flow. It's cheap, and fairly easy, and will provide room for water flow.

I think gluing the star board together will probably limit your flexibility, and since it doesn't float, building with it sans glue might be OK. Seems like a lot of cost and effort though, with no real advantage over the PVC pipe slices.

Just PM energy and I am sure he will respond when he gets the time. He used foam extensively in his 1700g reef and it looks great.

[thirschmann]

Thanks you again, I think we have something crossed though. The rock will be on PVC or Acrylic risers anyways, so we agree there. I was just going to use the foam so the that area under the rocks and in the canyon would look better then just bare glass. It would be used for purely decorative reasons so that it looks better then BB and I can create a physical barrier to keep sand away from these areas.

The PVC slices is a good idea, I'll try that out before I put any rock down. Thank you once again, I wll PM energy as soon as I can.

[MarineGirl411]

LOL, I don't think winning the Lottery is going to work for me. =) I really am interested in what some of you do for work. I'm searching for a new career and I'd like to get into a field that would allow me to have enough money to build a dream tank. =)
With the PVC bottom, do you mean cut all the pipes then lay them out flat? I do not understand. I would think that would take forever. Maybe I am not fully understanding.

[jnarowe]

Well I am not sure you will get much benefit for the health of your reef by lining the edges with foam...think about it this way: The reason for elevating the rock is to allow flow under it, and keep detritus from building up in places you can't get to. If you install foam along the edges of the rock, you negate the gain by providing a place for detritus drifts to accumulate, and you won't be able to vacuum it out.

What is really scary is how much detritus collects just from rocks sitting in a tank with no fish...

MarineGirl411: Believe it or not, most of the reefers I have met are not "rich" but just serious hobbiests. It's like skiing, scuba diving, or any other hobby or recreational activity. It costs money and we save and prioritize so that we can afford it at the level we want to be at. It's not always smart, like owning a boat, but it's what drives us intellectually and perhaps spiritually...

And there are lots of ways to build a tank system without breaking the bank.

[thirschmann]

marinegirl411 - I agree with jnarowe, I have other passions as well but since I started my reef tank I have had to make sacrifices to keep up with this hobby. And it certainly isn't cheap unfortunately. But skiers and divers have to travel and we have our expenses. And like jnarowe said, it can be done cheaply. I only spent $300 on my first 75g SPS dominated tank buying from friends and getting used equipment (obviously not including lifestock).

jnarowe - I will try to make a diagram. There will still be a significant space inbetween the foam and rock, I do not intent to rest the rock on the foam but allow it to rest on the acrylic risers which are sunk into the foam and rise a few inches above it. The entire point is to get water movment under the rocks. I will post a diagram as soon as I get around to it.

[MarineGirl411]

I did some of that too, but spent more than that on my 40 breeder unfortunately. =(
Oye madre! I tried saving money by doing DIY like the stand. Well, first time the stain turned the entire thing orange, so I had to do it over. If I could have found a 40 breeder stand ready to go, I would have just bought it. I ended up spending too much on a stand that looks like doo doo. I know a lot of people aren't rich, but I do see some of the homes these tanks are in. They look pretty nice. =) Just wanted a better career like some may have here. I'm buying used things for my next upgrade already. It will still be a lot though. :::sigh

[thirschmann]

Marinegirl411 - The investments I was talking about was real estate. I got in to some lucky land a few years ago and enough the market is bad right now I got a good offer on a piece of land. Unfortunately that's the risk with DIY, if you do some experimenting first or find a friend with a little experience that can go a long way.

Jnarowe

Hope this helps. The diagram should be self explanatory
[IMG]http://web.mac.com/thomashirschmann/iWeb/Thomas%20Michael%20Hirschmann%20jr./Reefcentral%20pictures%20sketchup_files/Foam%20Diagram%201.jpg[IMG/]

[IMG]http://web.mac.com/thomashirschmann/iWeb/Thomas%20Michael%20Hirschmann%20jr./Reefcentral%20pictures%20sketchup_files/Foam%20Diagram%202.jpg[IMG/]

The pink is where I propose to have foam, the rest of the glass would be covered in a thin layer of sand.
[IMG]http://web.mac.com/thomashirschmann/iWeb/Thomas%20Michael%20Hirschmann%20jr./Reefcentral%20pictures%20sketchup_files/foam%20diagram%203.jpg[IMG/]

[thirschmann]

damnit... again

Marinegirl411 - The investments I was talking about was real estate. I got in to some lucky land a few years ago and enough the market is bad right now I got a good offer on a piece of land. Unfortunately that's the risk with DIY, if you do some experimenting first or find a friend with a little experience that can go a long way.

Jnarowe

Hope this helps. The diagram should be self explanatory




The pink is where I propose to have foam, the rest of the glass would be covered in a thin layer of sand.

[Central Oregon]

I think the idea is really good for the foam under the rocks. Personally I'm not into the bare bottom look either, but do like the idea of the easy to clean bare bottom tank. I've thought of using Acrylic to make the islands under the rocks and using Acrylic rods to hold the rock up off the bottom a bit. Maybe drill small holes into the rocks if the design is to unstable just stacked. I thought black acrylic because black plastic seems to grow coraline the fastest. You could cut out the general shapes and then glue it together. After letting it dry work it over with a dremel or other carving tool. Then the last step I would do is hit the top with a torch to make it smooth again, so that stuff doesn't stick to it. I noticed in the picture you have a low area under the rock piles, you might not want to do that because any area like that could allow stuff to settle out. If you were worried about stuff getting under the edge you could run a small bead of silicon around the outside edge after you are sure thats how you want it.

You could probably use Starboard and do the same thing. but I think it requires a really special glue to bond to itself or anything else with a good bond.

[MarineGirl411]

My boyfriend and I actually want to flip houses. Buy fixer uppers then sell them. We might try that. Okay enough about that...

Is there anything you could use that you don't have to glue down? I was thinking about something like that, but I wouldn't want to glue it to the glass. Just in case I'd want to sell the tank in the future.

[erics3000]

Great reply johnathan about not breaking the bank. I have been trying to do things with a budget in mind. But we all know how that goes. But I think you can find a happy medium. With planning and help from everyone it can save time and money..

thirschmann
I signed up for ORCA myself and only have been able to go to one meeting. I have been busy with work family and traveling. I am looking forward to getting some frags. I cant wait to see your tank and few other members.

My 2 cents with BB is I prefer sand at least a little. I think a thin amount will be easy to clean. MY rocks in my 150 get full of gunk. I blow them off every once and a while. So I understand your concern . I hate when the rocks are dirty you cant see all the nice colors in the rock, not to mention the nitrates. You guys are talking about the pond foam wright?

[thirschmann]

Not sure if I mentioned this or not but I plan to drill some very small holes in the 8 closed loop returns that go through the rockwork to constantly blow detritus from within the structure and in the space below it, these will probably clog overtime but should work well for a good while, no idea how I would unclog them if I did have a problem.

central orgeon - thanks for your input. The idea you had with acrylic is what I was getting at using starboard, that would certainly give me some more control and durability then using foam. The fact that I could melt the acrylic is a good point, that would certainly smooth out the edges. The silcone idea is also a good idea. I will try to run some experiments on a 10g first to see what works best when I have some time.

marinegirl411 - I have looked into flipping houses as well and it can be a lot harder then you might think, I have a friend who does it and he routinely ends up spending large amounts of money due to unexpected setbacks. In todays real estate market it might be wise to buy cheap know and sell in 2 to 4 yrs, if that is an opinion. In a good year a nice piece of real estate can go up in value by 25% to 35%, and about 6% to 10% in a slower year depending on inflation. Unfortunately that investment takes a while to mature, but can be vary fruitful.
Yeah I don't want to glue anything either if I have the chance, but unfortunately a lot of the potential materials are bouyant.

erics3000 - It seems that something always pops up the same weekend as the ORCA meetings. But some of the guest speakers and the frag auctions are definetly worth it (especially if you go with a few friends after a few more beers).
I prefer sand as well but after having a problem with very high nitrates for a long time after a tunze fell and blew into the sand bed all night I want to avoid that at all costs. Even after 3 complete waterchanges I was till having problems 2 months later.
Yes I am talked about the pond foam, I have no experience with it thus far so I don't know if it will even work, just seemed like an interesting solution to a problem. Looking foward to experimenting with it though. One major concern I have is damaging the foam if a frag or rock happens to fall. Thanks for your continued interest and input.

[jnarowe]

I think it's an interesting idea, but I would be wary of making it too complicated and too inflexible. You would definitely have to glue down the foam when the tank is empty, and once it is full, you have very little flexibility. Based on your diagram, it appears that you will still be able to see the rock "legs" and might not be happy with that. If you use foam on the bottom, you might as well use it on the legs too, but I would seriously chat with energy before taking any steps. He has had so much experience with this, I would say he's the go-to guy for using foam and making it comeout right.

[cwilson]

ive been reading since day one; so i figured i should post! most of this is a bit too advanced for me, but theres one thing i can certainly relate to:

marinegirl- theres a reason everyone doesnt show their houses on here! seriously though, just budget i guess. that or spend too much and drive to your parents house when you need food! not that ive done that before!

this is an outstanding forum, concerning both the BEAUTIFUL tank, as well as the great advice and opinions being shared!
great looking setup so far, cant wait to see it finished!

[MarineGirl411]

lol yah that could work maybe.

[bbrantley]

Hey Thomas,

Dude, you've got some mad SketchUp skillz!

I'll just note that all of my rock is suspended above the floor of my tank by one to two inches. Even if I didn't have any sand, I don't think a casual observer would see any of the acrylic rods. Part of the trick of it is to use rock that has a little concavity and size to it. It wasn't that bad once I got started doing it. You do need a healthy array of rock pieces to choose from to work with, though.

Good luck with this tank!

Ben

[thirschmann]

jnarowe - you are probably right about it being over complicated. The acrylic legs would start further back so they would not be visible, just that way in the diagram to depict my idea. Energy suggested that I look at someone elses thread but I can't find it. "the 1700 gallon stingray reef". Thanks you for your continued input. I looked through your thread the other day and its very impressive. Congrats.

cwilson - thank you for your interest. This forum is great, it is was inspired me to go bigger, otherwise I would have been to intimidated.

bbrantley - Thanks Ben, I was a art major and international business minor in my undergraduate studies so I got some exposure to graphic design programs and I went to stanford for 3d animation, that helps a little bit with sketchup.

Thanks for the advice on the rockwork, I always like setting up my rock just right so I'm sure I'll be dedicating a weekend to just that. This time around I'm hoping to get it right and glue it down so I'm not tempted to move anything, though I'm sure I eventually will. Thanks for your interest and input, any further comments would be greatly appreicated.

[thirschmann]

I am coming around to the controller selection part of my building process. I am looking into the profilux II Plus because of the extra screen that can be hooked up. I like the look of the biotopus but I'm more concerned about functionality and customer support. I am completely open to ideas and input. I have read over the comparison chart but can't make a decision.

Needs:
-All the basic probes and controls
-Internet connectivity and control
-a second external screen would be nice but not neccessary
-Good customer support and reliability

Not Needed:
-Light and wave control

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by thirschmann
jnarowe - you are probably right about it being over complicated. The acrylic legs would start further back so they would not be visible, just that way in the diagram to depict my idea. Energy suggested that I look at someone elses thread but I can't find it. "the 1700 gallon stingray reef". Thanks you for your continued input. I looked through your thread the other day and its very impressive. Congrats.

The 1700g Stingray reef is Energy's thread as posted by SPAZZ.

As far as controllers go, there really only are a couple that fulfill your needs. I can say without reservation that the customer servie from Neptune is second to none. No one in the business is more attentive to his customers than Curt.

[thirschmann]

jnarowe - once again thank you, that stingray reef is awesome, now I have a serious reef to aspire to. Neptune looks very attractive right now, might order it later today. Thanks for the input.

As far as that coral I promised you goes.. we can discuss it when I get back

[jnarowe]

no sweat. I would call Curt @ Neptune and discuss your system. They are getting ready to release some upgraded products and you might find out if that coincides with your time-frame.

[cbui2]

very nice and great executions btw. rock work idea is awesome also will you be building all the stands for fuge, sump and frag or hired contractors? what about chiller since i didn't see any post on it? early x-mas in july

[thirschmann]

jnarowe - I will try to give curt a call today, hopefully the international call costs won't kill me. I would hate to buy something and then have some new and improved version come out at the same time. One of the good things about being stuck over here is that I have a much longer time frame to work with. Once again, thank you.

cbui2 - Great work and congrats on your first reef tank, very well done for your first time around. Must be great to finally get that far on your tank.

I've had this vision for the rockwork for a while now and I can't wait to get it going.

Being stuck outside of the US for so long now I have had to commision my stands, which will probably work out better in the long run as they will now be powdercoated steel. The stands should be done already, guess I should check on that :-).

I have been looking into the aqua logic chillers as I read on another thread that these are very dependable. I do have access to a area directly outside the fish room for an external chiller if that is a better option. My experience with chillers is limited so if you have any suggestions that would be great. Well early x-mas in august since I won't get back before then, but this is the best x-mas ever!

[cwilson]

your right, the forum is great...

however, i was talking about this specific post! (sorry, i shouldve worded that better )

i think i speak for everybody when i say (we) cant wait to see your system up and running ( i can only imagine how you must feel )