I am LPS handicapped

Reefn00b · #1 10/10/2005, 10:03 AM

Okay guys, I need some advice or something here. I bought a Ridge hammer several months ago like 4 months ago and loved it.. A few months before that I had bought an elegance coral and had it sitting on the rocks... After doing some research I read that The elegance like to live on the sand so I moved it and put the new ridge hammer I just picked up in its place....

The hammer looked great and was doing well, but the elegance started taking a turn for the worse. I swapped spaces, putting the elegance back where it was and the hammer on the sand. Well the elegance is super healthy still and looks fantastic, ive had it about 6 months now, however my hammer looks like hell

It is practically white. and receeded but evey now and then it will perk back up and extend just a hair... Ive had it with it I dont really know what else to do.... If I cant save the coral, can you tell me what went wrong so I can prevent it from happening again?

Also I had a green fiji bubble coral, that was looking great for over a month and then last week it receeded and isnt really bubbling up now, I think the flow I had on it was too high and popped one of the bubbles...Will it repair its self? What can I do to help it come back out again?

Information you will need

Nitrates 0
Nitrites 0
Ammonia 0
PH 8.2
Alk 2.7 roughly almost 3
Salinity 1.025
Temp 80 all the time, 79 bare min.

I do water changes every week with oceanic salt and RODI water.

I have two 95w Super Actinics and 2 175 Watt MH.

I think Im cursed

Here are some pics when the bubble was healthy

Ridge Hammer on the right.... I've moved it now and it isnt angled like that and is now facing up like it should

Tank shot

Reefn00b · #2 10/10/2005, 11:03 AM

I see you guys viewin but you guys arent replyin

BethanyM · #3 10/10/2005, 11:09 AM

how big are your waterchanges?

BethanyM · #4 10/10/2005, 11:13 AM

Also when you answer your own post, it no longer shows up when people click UNANSWERED posts. Someone will get to it eventually. I have waited 3 days for an answer before.

Large Polyp Dave · #5 10/10/2005, 11:17 AM

i'm viewing! but i think i'll opt out on the supposed mandatory responses =)

Reefn00b · #6 10/10/2005, 11:48 AM

Sorry about that guys... My tank is a 46 gallon tank. I usally do 6 gallon water changes.

WendyMc · #7 10/10/2005, 07:48 PM

wow, that's alot of light on a 46g for hammers & bubbles. Bubbles seem to be pretty tolerant of higher light tanks like that (the one on the right in my gallery lived in my 55 w/(2) 250w hqi 20k for 2 yrs), but they prefer more dimness. Are you feeding these guys? I've pulled bubbles out of very bad condition by placing in low flow, low light situations & feeding daily until they are up to par, then weekly as regular routine. You may have to start by feeding at night when the bubbles' feeders are naturally extended, w/smaller pieces (like adult brine, chopped misis/krill/plankton/f1 etc). About 15 min after lights have gone out put a little of the food in the tank so the coral can smell it, once feeders are extended gently place/squirt the food on it w/turkey baster or other such implement.

Hammers can be a little more touchy, especially when it comes to sudden change. When you got it how long did the prior tank house it? 1st thing I'd do is make sure there are no physical irritants going on. Inspect the skeleton for sponges/aptasia/various other life which could be harmful to the hammer's well being. Check your tank in the middle of the night to make sure there are no sweepers from other corals long enough to reach it, or 'mystery' critters preying on it. Have your clowns tried to host it? Is it possible to give it a lower light placement until the simbiotic algae repopulates its tissue? Just a few possible things which could be bugging it...

WendyMc · #8 10/10/2005, 07:50 PM

Oh, also on feeding that bubble, once it is looking better you can graduate to larger pieces of food. I think when they are in a bad way it's harder for them to expend the energy to digest large pieces than smaller ones. I know of lots of bubbles eating larger pieces of food, just start smaller.

Reefn00b · #9 10/10/2005, 08:28 PM

Wow great info!... Actually surprising or not the tank isnt that bright... Perhaps its because I run 14k's... The previous tank only housed the hammer for a small ammount of time maybe 3 weeks? I watched it when it came in and it looked terrible but three weeks later it was looking good and i took it home...

Nothing hosts the hammer, in fact my clowns barely ever leave my elegance... they have been playing in it since I got it 6 months or so ago. There is a lil bit of stuff on the hammers skeleton but i wouldnt know how to clean it off other than scrubbing it... that doesnt sound good to me...

As for the bubble i will gladly move it lower if u think it will help... up untill this point i have never spot fed any of my corals but read something similar to what you said in another thred and have squirted a lil cyclopeeze on it the past few days... i do have mysis and brine though and will give it a shot tonight at lights out.

Any other things i can try... i definitely want to save the bubble... It was beautiful!!! I fear the hammer is too far gone but ive had it this long and will ceritanly try anything to help it!

WendyMc · #10 10/10/2005, 08:42 PM

Don't give up on the hammer, as long as there's no brown jelly on the tissue you should be able to save it if you can figure out what's ticked it off. When you bought it was the tissue a good brown, or was it pretty light? If it was on its way to bleaching already, it might not be your tank that caused it but the stress of the changes. How far were the tentacles expanding before you bought it? Also, can you describe the stuff growing on the skeleton? I had to remove a white sponge from the skeleton of my bubble once. The coral bleached, then stopped expanding as much. The sponge was about an inch away from the tissue, just spreading across the skeleton. I read something in Dr. Ron Shimek's forum (can't remember what link, it was a while back) which made me think the chemical warfare from the sponge might have been what was upsetting the bubble. I got a clean container w/tank water, pulled off the sponge w/my fingers, & scrubbed the skeleton w/ a toothbrush I have for tank only use. Make sure the polyps have fully contracted before you pull the coral out of the tank by lifting it by the skeleton & gently waving it in the tank. Whatever you do, don't touch the fleshy part while you're doing this. I then rinsed the coral in another dish of tank water before returning it. 3 days later it was like my old bubble again, just took about a month before it returned to its old color. Also, What's the flow like around your hammer?

Reefn00b · #11 10/10/2005, 08:57 PM

Here are some pics of the current situation.. the bubble is much easier to shoot than the hammer... I will try to get a better pic in a moment.

But you can at least see how receeded that portion of the hammer is.

The flow of the hammer is not so much... Because it is at the bottom of the tank it doesnt really get hit hard at all. The bubble gets a decent ammount of flow though.... When the hammer looked its best it probably got hit pretty decent with flow, bit never really extended out much past a quarter of an inch or so.

Pics are huge... so u can really see...

http://ww2.coastal.edu/jbell1/sick/1.jpg
http://ww2.coastal.edu/jbell1/sick/2.jpg
http://ww2.coastal.edu/jbell1/sick/3.jpg
http://ww2.coastal.edu/jbell1/sick/4.jpg

WendyMc · #12 10/10/2005, 09:23 PM

OUCH. It may be too late for the hammer. If that coral were in my tank, I would give it a calm water flow area with some shade, & a lot of time. It looks like euphyllia that was burned by higher intensity lighting than it's used to.

The bubble will pull through as long as it's not getting its tissue further torn by too much current. How long ago did it happen? One thing you have to consider when a LPS has physical damage is you want enough flow to keep bacterial infections from invading damaged tissue, but not so much it adds stress to the coral. If it happened 4 or more days ago, I'd think you should be out of the dangerzone for infections.

Another thing I wanted to let you know is my favorite LFS owner has an elegance in his 550g up on the rocks. He's had it that way for years, and that is one happy coral. His name on this board is kevinpo, if you want to look in his gallery he has some pics of it. His tank was TOTM 11/04, I think there's a shot of it in that article. I think you did the right thing putting it back where it was (obviously the coral thinks so too).

Reefn00b · #13 10/10/2005, 09:30 PM

Yeah I was thinking the same about the Hammer

Now Im actually terrified to get another one... I've had my eye on one for a month now at the LFS but im scared i'll kill it now... The bubble has been that way for a lil more than a week so hopefully im okay on infections...

I will definitely do the feedings tonight like you mentioned. abd hope for the best...> What kinda recovery time am I lookin for on the bubble?

Thanks for the compliments on the elegance. Its my pride and joy, especially since it seems most have a hard time keeping them. I've made it to the 6 months mark on it, so im hoping for the best but keep my fingers crossed.

You can view some other, not so large pics of my tank here

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=670278

they are about halfway down the thread.

WendyMc · #14 10/10/2005, 09:42 PM

w/proper nutrition & flow, you should see some great improvement within a week. I think in about 2 mos it'll look like a healthy bubble. I don't know if you should be scared of hammers, how brown was that one before you got it?

Reefn00b · #15 10/10/2005, 09:48 PM

Hmmm honestly i dont really remember... i remember it having its ups and downs in the in LFS and i said well ill take a chance on it... so mayeb i didnt kill it... i will post a pic of the one im thinking of buying, tomorrow. and u can tell me if it looks like a healthy canidate.

WendyMc · #16 10/10/2005, 10:04 PM

Sounds good. Another suggestion on how to approach the husbandry of these types of corals is to find a hobbyist w/a branching form in similair lighting conditions. They can be a pretty tough coral, but 1 thing IME they don't take well to is being placed in vastly different conditions abruptly. If you can find someone locally willing to let you buy/trade for a single head w/a set up close to yours, you can have the benefit of knowing the coral hasn't been through he*% to get from the ocean to your display, and shouldn't be out the investment a wild colony would cost you. I can't tell you how different the experience is when you get a captive propagated LPS compared to a wild collected one. Also, in Borneman's book, it's suggested that these corals are too heavily collected than what is healthy for our natural reefs. I would still like to see a pic of the one at your LFS though...

Reefn00b · #17 10/11/2005, 08:09 PM

Wendy take a look.... This one has been sitting in my LFS for about a month now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ce/DSCN1145.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ce/DSCN1110.jpg

WendyMc · #18 10/11/2005, 08:15 PM

Both links give a 'page can't be found' error message. Do they work for you?

Reefn00b · #19 10/11/2005, 08:25 PM

Wendy im retarded forgive me... Heres the proper links

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCN1145.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCN1110.jpg

WendyMc · #20 10/11/2005, 08:37 PM

Looks great! Is it a wild collected or captive propagated specimin? Also, I think it's ticked at that scolymia, it wants to nuke it w/those sweepers. As long as they're asking a decent price, I don't see why you should pass it up. Just try to simulate the same conditions when you place it in your tank (most importantly the distance from bulbs & flow). Also, one of the nice things about the branching ones is that if a head is injured or dies, the rest of the colony can pull through just fine as long as the source of the death is discovered & kept from affecting the other heads.

Reefn00b · #21 10/11/2005, 08:40 PM

Agreed Im all about the branching kinda from here out.... It has a decent price tag on it and the lights that are on it now are the same as mine and im sure i can replicate the flow

Reefn00b · #22 10/11/2005, 08:41 PM

Oh and if i remember correctly it was captive raised.

WendyMc · #23 10/11/2005, 09:25 PM

I think it's calling...Have you moved your bleached hammer yet? Did the bubble eat last night?

Reefn00b · #24 10/11/2005, 09:34 PM

Yeah i moved the bleached hammer

i feel terrible about it even though it may or may not be my fault. the bubble did seem to eat a lil so hopefully it will perk up... i changed MH bulbs sunday so it may be a lil ****ed about it..i went from 14 k's to 10 k's also it about time for me to change my VHO's

WendyMc · #25 10/12/2005, 11:07 AM

Did the bubble extend any feeder tentacles when you fed it? Mine opens its mouth huge, about the length of 1.5", width about .5" when it's shoveling it in. Can you see a mouth on yours? Last night I was feeding my LPS, & I have 2 fem emerald crabs in my tank. I hung out longer than usual, because some of my corals haven't been eating as eagerly or expanding as much during the day. I'm so glad I did, about 1/2 hour after I fed my acanthasrea lord, my emerald crab grabbed a polyp w/both claws & ripped it in half! It ate the food, then started to eat the torn tissue. This crab is such a good algae eater, and I was hand feeding her everyday also. I've always been told things like 'I don't trust any crabs, they're such an opportunistic lot'. I never had a problem, but this is my first set up with many lps I handfeed. The worst part is I don't know if I should take this crab back to my LFS, what if it gets sold to a hobbyist w/LPS? Anyway, just something else you might want to watch out for if you have any inverts w/claws...