Which R/O-DI from ebay?

patedship · #1 04/27/2006, 10:47 PM

Two options:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Aquarium-RO-2-DI...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUA-AQUARIUM-10...QQcmdZViewItem

Basically the exact same price have you guys heard anything about either of them?

Captain Quirk · #2 04/27/2006, 10:55 PM

Not sure, and although I find that RO supplies are about as close to being raped without being physically violated as it gets, I somehow suspect the true quality of these units.

This is a somewhat uneducated observation, however. I just replaced all the media in my RO (Coralife 3 stage 50GPD) and the new media alone cost me 100 bucks (championlighting.com). And they were the cheapest! Well, of the places I knew, that is.

So, in my view, it seems a bit too good to be true. However, if you pick one up, please be sure to post your thoughts!

I know I didn't offer any useful information; sorry. It was just my 2c...

And now I'm broke. Damn.

BeanAnimal · #3 04/27/2006, 11:03 PM

Both look like junk, horizontal DI... I did not read what membrane they have, but if it is not a TRUE DOW FILMTEC 75 GPD you don't want them.

There are plenty of threads here about these units and their problems. Go to:

airwaterice.com ( typhoon III is the model you want)
purelyH20 on ebay
buckeyfieldsupply.com
filterguys.biz
melev sells units.

Buy a unit from any of the places listed above and you will be much happier. Better products, better service, and better for your wallet in the long run.

patedship · #4 04/27/2006, 11:09 PM

I was hoping on getting one under $100 not paying like 200 for one.

patedship · #5 04/27/2006, 11:37 PM

The second link has a dow membrane

BeanAnimal · #6 04/27/2006, 11:49 PM

You get what you pay for. In most (all?) cases the ~$100 unit will end up costing you a lot more to run the the $200 unit.

The horizontal DI chambers are garbage and allow the water to bypass. The first unit you listed does not even give the name brand of the membrane, not ot mention that the advertising is patently false with regards to what it removes and it's daily capacity. This is just for starters.

The second ad also lists a 100GPD membrane and 99% rejection. Thats is a lie as well. This unit also has the horizontal DI. The membrane is an "applied membranes", not a DOW FILMTEC. Though they lead you to believe that it is the same thing... NOT! They just use dow film. They not the same and the applied membrane needs more water pressure to perform to specs.

Honestly... buy from a reputable vendor, not a scammer that is in a price war with other scammers.

J4Life · #7 04/27/2006, 11:49 PM

IMO if u paid more than $200 for a RO unit then you got raped. patedship I bought a 100 GPD 5 stage unit just like the first link you posted and I have had a very good experience with mine. The first RO unit I bought it cost me a $175 and it was only a 35 GPD unit.

My current unit has been trouble free and I would do it again and recommend to anyone else at looking at buying an RO unit to do it. The filters can be purchased from many sites on line at very inexpensive prices, you just have to search. Google is my best friend on the Internet.

The price he is advertising is fair, but the shipping is sort of high however all in all it would still be a good deal.

Hope that helps. God Bless,
Bill

patedship · #8 04/28/2006, 12:12 AM

So what kind should i get? I dont wanna get rapped on shipping

BeanAnimal · #9 04/28/2006, 12:17 AM

Bill... with all due respect, that is like saying "I am happy with my packard bell" they are great units. Because you are happy does not mean that the product is good or cost effective. It also does not mean you know the difference between a good and bad RO/DI unit. It just means that you are happy.

I quick search of the forums will show that the units in question are not reliabe, have substandard components and do not work efficiently. In almost all cases the $200 unit is a much better value after just 1 year of operation. the aquasafe is better than the first unit, but it is still not good.

So that the reasons are clear, I will spell them out.

1) the membranes in these units are rated at 100GPD, and 75 PSI. Your home has ~30-50 PSI water. Therefore the membranes in these units will come nowhere near a 4:1 wastwater ratio. They will also not reduce TDS by 98%, instead it will be about 90%. This is a SUBSTANTIAL difference in operating cost. Your DI RESIN will have to work several times harder and wear will out much faster.

Example 200 TDS input to a dow filmtect at 50 PSI will result in an output TDS of about 4. The same water put into one of the membranes above will have an output TDS of 20. That is 5 times the TDS, meaning the DI resin will be used up 5 TIMES faster!!! The wastewater will also add up rather quickly due to the pressure ratings of the membranes.

2) The Horizontal DI resin setup will allow water to bypass the resin and leave the unit with TDS still present. With the already high TDS output from the poor choice of membranes, you will be putting a significant amount of TDS into your tank. It is very common for "eBay" units to have an output at the DI the same as the membranes output, showing that almost all of the water is bypassing the resin.

These are the two basic reason to avoid these units. There are plenty of others, such as support, quality of materials and workmanship etc.

Bill, you may be happy with your unit, but your honest opion may not be an educated opinion.

The same logic could be applied to your proffesion...
Let me go replace all your UPS racks with cyberpower units from best buy, they are only $149 for 1kVA. IMHO anybody who pays more than $149 for a 1kVA UPS is getting raped. I have one under my desk and it works great.... those DELL poweredge servers are overpriced as well, why don't you guys buy those $30 mobos from china? The computer show has cases with 400 supplies for $25. I figure you could put a whole server together for about $400 instead of spending $3000 with DELL or IBM.

I hope you see the point

It would be great if you COULD get a decent RO/DI unit for $75 bucks. It's simpy not going to happen. To many compromises must be made and the end result as a unit that works, but costs more money to use and is less reliable.

BeanAnimal · #10 04/28/2006, 12:18 AM

pated... I gave you several good resources and all the information you need.

You can heed the advice or choose to ignore it. I am only trying to help, but it's your money in the end.

patedship · #11 04/28/2006, 12:33 AM

Yes thank you, i have decided NOT to get either. I emailed Melev about one.

patedship · #12 04/28/2006, 01:02 AM

Any other suggestions on where to buy?

AZDesertRat · #13 04/28/2006, 09:18 AM

The four best vendors I would recommend are:
www.purelyh20.com - Bryan is a sponsor here.
www.airwaterice.com - Their Typhoon III is one of the best.
www.buckeyefieldsupply.com - Russ is a super guy.
www.thefilterguys.biz

All four of there use genuine Dow Filmtec membrane in their units. They all have standard sized large capacity vertical refillable DI filters on their reef systems which I highly recommend. They all build units specifically for reef and aquarium use, not just an off the shelf drinking water system touted to be for reef use. And finally all offer greta technical and customer support, give any of them a call or e-mail and ask questions of them. Tell them about your water source and let them recommend something for you.

Colorado · #14 04/28/2006, 06:16 PM

I have the Aqua-Safe unit for the past 2 years and have been happy with it. Have received great customer service from Ed when I have e-mailed him.
Interesting on the DI cartridge, I just got up and walked over to mine to see if water is bypassing the resin. Nope the cartridge is full. After a few minutes running I get 0 tds before the DI and 0 tds after the DI. Haven't changed my DI in 6 months, and I make approx 120 to 150 gals a month. Now granted I maybe producing more waste water than needed, and this I'm going to look into.
Are ther better units than the Aqua-Safe? Probably so. But I see nothing wrong with the quality or workmanship of my unit. It is a very solid unit.

BeanAnimal · #15 04/28/2006, 06:40 PM

Colorado... some people have fiar results with the horizontal DI. But more often than not, they are the source of problems due to bypassing or channeling. It's just a simple fact of the design.

If you have 0 TDS before the DI, what exactly is your input TDS?

Colorado · #16 04/28/2006, 07:08 PM

BeanAnimal... 198 is my input tds. I have a dual tds meter on my unit, and I monitor my pre-DI desolved solids. Once it reads above 8 tds, I change my filters. When the DI hits 1 tds, I change out the resin.
I'm not disputing that the vertical DI may produce better results. In fact I have been looking at possibly adding the dual DI unit from Air, Water, and Ice. Yet when I look at the Dual / Home Reef from them it also uses the Horizontal DI. Interesting

BeanAnimal · #17 04/28/2006, 07:43 PM

Yup.. most of the vendors sell lower priced units with horizontal DI....

Colorado · #18 04/28/2006, 07:53 PM

Look at the Dual Home / Reef uit from Air, Water, and Ice. It has a horizontal DI unit..

BeanAnimal · #19 04/28/2006, 08:18 PM

Yeah... like I said, most vendors have them... even the quality guys (in their lower priced units)... but it does (Dual HR) come with a 75gpd dow filmtec

Colorado · #20 04/28/2006, 09:22 PM

I understand what you are saying, yet high dollars does not always need to be spent to achieve desired results. What works for one may not work for another.

You know I'm a cigar nut... Love cigars, collect them, buy them, trade them, and smoke em. Been doing it for over 30 years.
Like I always tell people:
"I have smoked some damn good $1.00 cigars, and I have smoked some $1.00 dog rockets."
"I have smoked some damn good $25.00 cigars, and have smoked some $25.00 dog rockets."
It appears my Aqua-Safe unit falls into the $1.00 damn good cigar category. Just my humble opinion

PS my savings helped me purchase my damn good $25.00 H&S Skimmer cigar.

AZDesertRat · #21 04/28/2006, 09:30 PM

But you know if you had a better RO/DI you would never see a RO only TDS above 4 and your DI would last more than twice as long. Your output would probably be faster so it wouldn't take as long to make the same amount of water, and your waste ratio would probably be less. Again you get what you pay for with RO/DI and I would stack units like the Typhoon III or the Optima up against any unit on the market. The only one that may beat them is one of Spectrapures units with a hand picked individually tested membrane.
I will admit something is better than nothing but don't try to compare a Yugo to a Mercedes or an Aquasafe or Filter Direct to a Typhon III or Optima, it will lose every time guaranteed.

And I wish to heck I could smoke good cigars! I gave it up 5 years ago July 3rd, and miss them every day. So instead I took up homebrewing craft beers and now savor a nice double hopped pale ale instead.

BeanAnimal · #22 04/28/2006, 10:48 PM

Colorado,

They key to your point is "desired results". The units in question in these threads are inferior. If looking at the "results" from a quantitative standpoint, the (2) units listed in this thread will not work as efficiently, and cost more to own and operate than the proposed alternatives. So you need to define the "desired results". Are they to spend less now and a lot more later, or spend a little bit more now to save a lot more later.

Think of this as a Mile Per Gallon debate. You know you will drive 10 miles a day at $3.00 a gallon. Do you buy the $20,000 car that gets 20 miles to the gallon? Or do you buy the $21,000 car that gets 30 miles to the gallon?

A simple analysis will show you that at the cheaper car gets a free day of gas every third day... or $30. That means that in 34 days the cheaper car will cost $30 more to own... and $30 more every day after that, as compared to purchasing the more expensive car in the first place. There is nothing magic here, it is simple math. The RO/DI units can be looked at the same way.

Bean

Colorado · #23 04/28/2006, 11:41 PM

BeanAnimal.. Yes there are many units on Ebay, and else were, that are inferior products. I guess I'm comparing the Aqua-Safe unit to the highly recommend units of Air, Water, and Ice. I think what I'm trying to say is don't discount the Aqua-Safe unit so readably.

Example: Typhon III from what I read:
They are both basically the same units. A few bells a whistles difference.
Both have 75 or 100 GPD membranes using Dow.
Both use: Real, easy to use fast flush valve
Both use: Automatic shut off valve
Both use: RO only valve this valve is intended as a sample port for testing the output of the membrane.
Both have: Every connection is a quick connect push-in style connection easy fast leak free
Both have: Automatic shut off valve and quick connect "Plug & Play" PUSH-IN fittings.
Both have: Stainless steel check valve.

I believe the Typhon III would also be at a 4 to 1 ratio for water. The Typhon III also states water temp less than 77 degrees less results.

The Typhon III has the pressure gage and comes with a TDS meter and thermometer. Vertical DI VS Horizontal DI. Add the additional cost of these items to the Aqua-Safe and we are probably in the same price range. These are bells and whistles that I don't personally need. I can see were the Vertical can actually be better, yet I'm still at 0 tds with my horizontal.

My pressure is fine, water runs a little cold. ( I'm going to try that darn extra line in a heated bucket and see if it makes a whole lotta difference. )

Obviously the accountant in me is going to choose the $21,000 dollar 30 gallon per mile car. It has the best return on investment. I'm just not convinced that both of these units are not equivalent $21K vehicles. For a few dollors more one has heated seats, but in my opinon both are at 30 GPM

Maybe I should buy the Typhon III and run a side by side test. Sorta like what was done with various MH Bulbs.
Maybe the Aqua-Safe is a inferior product, and I got lucky with good water pressure, and decent (not ideal) but decent water temp. Also there is the possibiltiy I don't have a clue. LOL

DesertRat: We all have our vises don't we. You gave up cigars, and I gave up alcohol

Marker · #24 04/29/2006, 12:32 AM

patedship,

I'm with Colorado on this one. I've been very pleased with my Aqua-Safe RO unit. It does what I want it to do. I don't use it too much just topoff and drinking water.

I'm budget conscious myself so I didn't want to spend a fortune on a RO unit.

You can always mount the DI vertically if you wanted to. but the Resin is so well packed in the chamber that it hasn't been a problem for me. Even a Vertical filter can get channeling if the media isn't packed properly.

Are there better out there? yeah but it wasn't worth the extra price for me. I've had mine for over 2 years and even with replacing my cartridges (and still having extra spare cartridges) I think I've still paid less than I would if I bought Kent or Spectrapure.

I've had great support form Aquasafe when I did have questions and do not have any complaints or issues with the make or quality of the parts and I'd recommend them to my Friends or Family.

I understand Bean's argument and if money was no object my everyday car would be M5 and I'd have my choice betwen an Aston Martin Vanquish and Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren for my weekend cars unfortunately money is an object so I have to weigh my options and pick what I really want to put my money towards.

So if you want an inexpensive RO unit I'd vote the Aqua-Safe. If you want the best then maybe the Typhon III or Optima like AZDesertrat said but there is always something better.

Man I wish I could get that M5.....

Opions are like ### ##### everyone has one. but thats just my opinion

Ok i'm delirious from lack of sleep.

Good Night!

Marker

PS I don't mean to insight any sort of anger from anyone just thought I'd put my 2 cents in.

cfarrow2 · #25 04/29/2006, 02:04 AM

hey, patedship! What did you decide?