Temp help please!!!

[AquaJern]

My temp in my aquarium seems to start out at 79-80 in the morning.
Afternoon about 82-83
Even seems to jump to 84-85

Is this bad or unhealthy for fish, clams corals?
I cannot afford a chiller or controller.

Thanks...

[kkyyllee]

thats a 6 degree swing, and can kill corals fish etc, better get a fan to lower the temp

[Phillstone]

depending on tank size and if you have a canopy, you can by a small clip on fan ( 8" ) and run it w/air blowing across water surface in the afternoon or when lights are on. This will evaporate more water causing a cooling effect. I run fans on all my tanks , I have no air conditioning in my house. My tanks run from 79-81.


Phill

[sabbath]

Fan works for me as well.

[AquaJern]

Thanks Guys!!!

[greenbean36191]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your temps. The swing you're seeing is entirely normal for the animals in your tank and they are perfectly adapted to deal with it. There is absolutely nothing unhealthy about it.

[Manuel Martinez]

On this summer I have the same problem, and I notice that my nitrate level is growing, and green hair algae on the live rock are disappearing.

[backyardspecial]

Originally posted by greenbean36191
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your temps. The swing you're seeing is entirely normal for the animals in your tank and they are perfectly adapted to deal with it. There is absolutely nothing unhealthy about it.

Wow that's the fist time I've read that. People always stress stability in temp.

[kkyyllee]

Originally posted by greenbean36191
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your temps. The swing you're seeing is entirely normal for the animals in your tank and they are perfectly adapted to deal with it. There is absolutely nothing unhealthy about it.

they are not adapted to deal with 6 degree swing between day and night, unlesss you can back this up thats alot of crap

[shag26272]

I have a 5.5 degree swing right now, no problems whatsoever.

[Peter Eichler]

Originally posted by kkyyllee
they are not adapted to deal with 6 degree swing between day and night, unlesss you can back this up thats alot of crap

Night time to daytime temps on a reef can vary as much as 5 degrees on average. Current changes call also make very dramatic changes throughout the day. Lastly, when you consider seasonal swings the temperature on an average Indo-Pacific reef can range from 75-90 degrees.

Here's just one of many references that dispell that age old myth that things like temperature are stable on coral reefs.

http://home2.pacific.net.ph/~sweetyummy42/reeftour.html

That said I'm not supporting people try to have big temp swings in their aquariums. However, the nonsense about how important it is to keep temps perfectly stable day in and day out are nonsense. I've even seen suggestions that temperature swings aren't only normal, they're beneficial.

[kuoka]

Originally posted by greenbean36191
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your temps. The swing you're seeing is entirely normal for the animals in your tank and they are perfectly adapted to deal with it. There is absolutely nothing unhealthy about it.

I don't subscribe to that. Although there are fluctuations in temps in the ocean, it's not nearly as fast as in an aquarium. Also there are pockets of cooler water in the ocean too that our tanks don't have. I'd go with a fan and not take the risk.

[greenbean36191]

Take a dive on a reef. Temp changes are much faster and much more drastic than anything most tanks will ever see. Some reefs see swings as much as 15 degrees in a day. Few see less than 2 degrees. 3-8 is the norm. Rachel Wood has some great info and graphs on the subject in Reef Evolution. The idea that those types of changes kill or stress reef animals is completely unheard of outside of the hobby. Brian Helmuth has done work showing the exact opposite is true.

People in the hobby tend to have a very cartoonish idea of the water over the reefs as one relatively uniform body that gradually heats and cools seasonally and gets colder as you go deeper. The ocean isn't a lake though. Changes in seasons, tides, day/night, internal waves, runoff, rain, upwelling, etc. all create temp heterogeneity in the water. There are warm spots and cool spots all moving around, and for about the first 150 feet there is no strong cooling pattern with depth.

When I was doing surveys in the Bahamas, on a single dive I saw too many almost instant 3-4 degree changes to count and at least one of 7 degrees, all without moving. On another dive there was a nearly 10 degree difference between 2 locations within 3 feet of each other. A friend of mine working in the same area had temp loggers placed around the island as part of his project. The daily range he recorded averaged about 8 degrees and occurred in as little as 15 minutes (which was how often he sampled). This is in an area where corals, including Acropora are recovering, not dying.

I can also assure you that my corals and fish haven't all died or declined in health despite years of constant 4-6 degree swings.

[chemesgh]

Originally posted by greenbean36191
Take a dive on a reef. Temp changes are much faster and much more drastic than anything most tanks will ever see. Some reefs see swings as much as 15 degrees in a day. Few see less than 2 degrees. 3-8 is the norm. Rachel Wood has some great info and graphs on the subject in Reef Evolution. The idea that those types of changes kill or stress reef animals is completely unheard of outside of the hobby. Brian Helmuth has done work showing the exact opposite is true.

People in the hobby tend to have a very cartoonish idea of the water over the reefs as one relatively uniform body that gradually heats and cools seasonally and gets colder as you go deeper. The ocean isn't a lake though. Changes in seasons, tides, day/night, internal waves, runoff, rain, upwelling, etc. all create temp heterogeneity in the water. There are warm spots and cool spots all moving around, and for about the first 150 feet there is no strong cooling pattern with depth.

When I was doing surveys in the Bahamas, on a single dive I saw too many almost instant 3-4 degree changes to count and at least one of 7 degrees, all without moving. On another dive there was a nearly 10 degree difference between 2 locations within 3 feet of each other. A friend of mine working in the same area had temp loggers placed around the island as part of his project. The daily range he recorded averaged about 8 degrees and occurred in as little as 15 minutes (which was how often he sampled). This is in an area where corals, including Acropora are recovering, not dying.

I can also assure you that my corals and fish haven't all died or declined in health despite years of constant 4-6 degree swings.

But, you can't challenge something that's been accepted by many people as hard truth when it comes to their tanks!!! Especially using logic, sound reasoning and just some old fashioned common sense.....

[kuoka]

I've taken dives in a reef and although the temp fluctuations are there, they're not constant. Meaning when the temp rises say 5 to 6 degrees, it will drop again shortly (that's the pocket of cooler waters I was talking about)

Unfortunately our tanks don't have these pockets of cooler water and the temps stay warm longer. My $.02 worth anywho.

[UnderCoverDork]

I think that a 6 degree temp swing every day is something that you should deal with. What if it gets to 100 degrees tomorrow and your tank goes up by 10 degrees?
why not head it off before it could turn into a major problem?
i wouldnt listen to the guy saying "Dont do anything". though he may be right about this not harming your tank..why risk it? what happens if your 6 degrees turns into 10 on a hot day when the AC goes out? wouldnt you rather have it somewhat stable?

i

[kkyyllee]

temp changes vary by location our tnaks generally dont have corals and fish form the same location making it so you have different tolerancese of temp etc. so some may be able to deal with it others may get stressed out

[Travis L. Stevens]

What Greenbean says is true. On the other hand, I agree with UnderCoverDork in our home aquarium scenarios. While 6ºF difference over the course of 24 hours isn't going to hurt anything, it also wouldn't hurt to keep it a little more stable in case of emergencies like UnderCoverDork has given. AquaJern, I wouldn't sweat it and take the weekend to do a lot of research. Go to the library, use Google Scholar, and look through some reef books. By the time you read through all that, you'll be confident that you'll either want to stablize the temperature as a preventive precaution, or leave it the way it is.

[bassettmd]

My tank in the morning is around 75-76 and by night it is aroun 80-81.... 8 months no problems with anemone, corals, fish, etc...

[reefworm]

Greenbean and Peter,
Thanks for the supporting information - excellent input, as is Travis' point. I think we do try to absolutize things a bit too much in our hobby - it's a fuzzy balance between reality and trying to be responsible keepers.

Chemesgh: is that another way of saying "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"?

We do tend to take comfort in the old and familiar - but we often err when we take in uncriticized orthodoxy, no matter how well intended or accepted. Look at how many changes scientific models have gone through in the last 50 years. The ability to change and rethink based on research is good science - and good reefkeeping.

[kypatriot]

In response to AquaJern's originally expressing an inability to afford a chiller, I would just say don't underestimate fans. Evaporative cooling reigns supreme, and 1 or 2 fans can make a big difference.

I don't freak out when my tank gets warm, but I don't let it get much above 80 either. Mostly because I want to keep away from danger, and I know that low 80s is fine.

I was running a fan at one end of my tank, but still had to run my home A/C more than I would have liked to keep the tank under 82. I added a 6" fan to the other end in addition to the larger fan already running, and my tank cooled 2 degrees from that alone.

[greenbean36191]

But, you can't challenge something that's been accepted by many people as hard truth when it comes to their tanks!!! Especially using logic, sound reasoning and just some old fashioned common sense.....

I think it's perfectly reasonable to question some schlub on the internet going against dozens of hobby books (regardless of the justification for their claims ). This is an especially hard argument to win because there are people who have lost entire, well established tanks because of moderate temperature swings. That's not exactly a surprise though... I'll get to that.

I think that a 6 degree temp swing every day is something that you should deal with. What if it gets to 100 degrees tomorrow and your tank goes up by 10 degrees?

That is pretty much exactly what Dr. Helmuth did in his experiments. Corals that were acclimatized to stable temperatures showed major metabolic stress even at moderate temp increases. Meanwhile the corals with a history of temp fluctuations kept plugging along normally up until about 90.

Basically all he did was confirm an old idea in ecology. There are different forms of most enzymes designed to work best at different temps. If you only see one set of conditions then you don't waste energy making the forms you don't need. As long as things stay the same, you're being efficient. If things change, you're screwed unless you can make the new form fast enough. If you regularly see a range of conditions, you make a little of everything so you're prepared for it all.

It may seem prudent to keep things stable just in case something goes wrong, but in the event that that does happen, chances are you're screwing your corals more than helping them.

[kevin2000]

So long as the change is gradual I don't think that six degrees change is going to harm anything in any tank that I have every owned. I suspect temperature isn't much different that PH or salinity .. so long as the change is gradual our tanks do fine through the peaks and valleys.

[BruiseAndy]

Originally posted by Phillstone
I have no air conditioning in my house.

Phill

The cobblers children have no shoes?

[0 Agios]

Originally posted by greenbean36191
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your temps. The swing you're seeing is entirely normal for the animals in your tank and they are perfectly adapted to deal with it. There is absolutely nothing unhealthy about it.

Anddd I totally agree with this sweet looking chick. A 5 degree swing in a reef is nothing to worry about, there's corals exposed to direct sunlight, out of the water in a low tide, 100 deg and they thrive. 79-85 is fine as far as I am concerned, chemical parameters is the killer, if you have a 6 deg swing with 100ppm nitrate then you will probably have a problem.