powder blue

[ThrowinRoost89]

i picked one up last weekend, and ive been notiving that he scratches himself on rocks and the sand. he will do it a couple pf times in a row. he is very active, and is plump.

also, it looks as if he may be getting ich already. ive noticed a couple of white dots on the black of his face and on one fin. he still has great color. all i can get him to eat is seaweed, and i keep it in there 24/7. ive tried mysis, pellets and flakes. pellets and flakes both have garlic.

but he ate pellets at the LFS when i bought him.


he is currently in a 55g reef, he is about 4in long. and will be going to a 120 when i get it set up.


what can i do for his diet to get rid of the ich.




also, will cleaner shrimp help?

[philagothos]

A cleaner shrimp might help, but not likely. You bought one of the most sensitive tangs available and put it in a seriously undersized tank, it's going to be stressed. Your best bet would be to see if the LFS will take it back. Otherwise, you might try QTing it and try hypo or the various chemicals availble. Unless your upgrade will be completed within a month, you should seriously consider returning the fish or selling/trading with someone that has an appropriate tank for it. Otherwise you can keep it in your too small tank and watch its health steadily decline.

Sorry if this all sounds harsh, but there are too many places where people can get info on fish requirements and yet so many people keep buying the wrong fish for their setups. Why not wait until the 120 is setup, mature, and ready for a tang before buying the fish and confining it to a too small tank? Btw, the Powder Blue is a herbivore so seaweed is its natural food of choice. If it eats other things that is because it is not getting its preferred food.

Here's some more info on the Powder Blue http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_...cfm?pCatId=366
They've also got the basic requirements on many other fish if you are interested in doing research before buying.

Again, I'm not trying to be overly harsh, but in all likelihood you wasted the money spent on it and condemned it to a short and miserable life (unless that 120 is going to be tang ready VERY soon).

[ThrowinRoost89]

no offense taken but,
everyone i talked to and see on here says they live fine in a 55 till they start getting big. a very well known/honest lfs owner also says it would be fine, he even told me to only get this till i upgrade.

i have read up on it when i starting deciding on the 120 stocklist/planning it, and just happend to run accross it at the LFS.

but ive always read of people supplementing pellets and frozen food, so thats why i asked....


live aquaria list it as 100g, for a grown fish. mines half the size so how does a 55 not compare? he likes swimming up and down in a corner, and then mosy's across the glass.







nevermind this post, found one in the disease treatment section of the same problem.

[Capt_Cully]

those guys are just tough! i had one did great, then he looked sick for a while, had ich off and on, then he looked great again, then I found him on the bottom of the tank.

[Michelle L]

Originally posted by ThrowinRoost89
no offense taken but,
everyone i talked to and see on here says they live fine in a 55 till they start getting big. a very well known/honest lfs owner also says it would be fine, he even told me to only get this till i upgrade.

That's wrong info. They need a large tank with a lot of strong water flow to flourish. And frankly, in thread after thread after thread that I have seen on RC since I have been here regarding Powder Blues, never have I seen anyone make the statement that a PBT would be "fine" in a 55. Maybe as a quaratine tank, but not as a home.

Your fish has ich. Good luck with that.

[ThrowinRoost89]

blah blah blah.....


people would have him in a smaller QT tank for 6 weeks, but he is to big for a 55 for a week....


give me a break.....




delete my topic

[Capt_Cully]

don't give up. RC is about opinnions and experiences. take the ones that work for you and make your own conclusions/decisions.
most of the time people are only trying to help. sometimes they come across as know it alls and self-righteous. don't let them get to you.

[ThrowinRoost89]

he spends most of his time chowing down on the seaweed i have in there and just kinda strollin around the tank.




i wanted to know what to feed him, not suggestions to take him back to the store.

i see no reason why a juevenile cant temperarily stay in a smaller tank, people steal fish from the 1billion gallon ocean. put it in a 50-400g glass box. and tell you your glass box is to small for that fish because thats what they think.


"Maybe as a quaratine tank, but not as a home."

well if ya woulda read my post's, thats basically what the 55g is. as i stated, this is TEMP tank!
as you obviously did not read, i did not say a 55g for a grown PBT.



have a nice day

[Gem Tang Rider]

There is no food known to cure ich.

Get yourself a 25watt UV sterilizer, & use a maxijet1200 to push water thru it in a closed loop.

[jazzmanb]

your tang well do fine in a 55 for awile..some people are by the book and dont think with common sense..sorry to sound harsh,but the tang police get annoying,as there so quick to tell someone whats wrong and right..a small tang well do great in a 55 for quite a while...i have four tangs in my 90[all small][powder blue,tomani,blue tang and a naso,they all are extremly happy,get along great,are active and beautiful..when they get too big ill trade them to someone who has a bigger tank..its really that simple.. when fish arnt happy its obvious....

[nosferatu51]

Originally posted by prugs
There is no food known to cure ich.

Get yourself a 25watt UV sterilizer, & use a maxijet1200 to push water thru it in a closed loop.

UV doesn't work on ich in a single tank. The ich gets into the rocks, gravel, etc. All the UV does it remove a small amount of water-borne ich.
The true benefit of UV is in a multitank system as an in between. That way nothing gets passed between tanks since the only way around is through the UV.
In a single tank, the UV won't make a difference since the ich (and other pathogens) can get around going through it pretty easily.

[philagothos]

Originally posted by jazzmanb
when fish arnt happy its obvious....

You mean by showing signs of stress, such as ick?

I don't consider myself part of the Tang Police in any way shape or form. I do however think it's irresponsible to buy a delicate fish and put it in a system that won't meet its needs (notice my endorsement of doing the upgrade ASAP to better the fish's chances). I'm also more of a capitalist than a conservationist. My main reason for not putting a fish in a too small system is that you are throwing away money. Though it does kinda suck that it also gives reefkeeping a bad image when fish that normally live many years die in a matter of months under our care, but that's up to you.

As far as common sense in reefing... there appears to be very little. If any of us had common sense we would never throw away so much money on a pretty glass box of water. Reefkeepers in general are rather absorbed by living in the moment rather than thinking long term. We buy fish that should probably never be taken from the ocean because "they look pretty". We buy corals that we are not prepared to care for and then have to quickly upgrade components of our systems. Then we hope the stress from upgrading doesn't kill them. We try to shortcut the suggestions of the people that have actually studied our animals and claim that we have more common sense than they.

You want some common sense? How about planning your system around the fish you want to keep? You can also show a little of this rare trait by researching your equipment so you never have to pay "stupid tax" and buy a piece of equipment twice (or more) to finally find the piece you should have bought in the beginning. Here's another thought, why only meet the minimum requirements of our animals? Millions of people live in shanties or are homeless around the world, and yet they still live. How big is your home? Would you like living in a minimumally sized home?

ThrowinRoost89, my post was not meant to upset you, but to keep you from wasting money on a fish that likely will not make it long term. If your upgrade is in process and will be finished soon, then by all means try to get/keep it healthy and it will be a beautiful addition to the new tank. If it's going to be several months before the new system is ready, you will probably be money ahead to take this one back and get another nice fat healthy one when the 120 is ready. None of us are fish whisperers, so we cannot truly know if our fish are happy or not. Ick is usually a sign of stress and food will likely not solve the problem (unless you can find the fish equivalent to Rocky Road).

Best of luck and Happy Reefing,
-Kevin

[Michelle L]

Originally posted by ThrowinRoost89



"Maybe as a quaratine tank, but not as a home."

well if ya woulda read my post's, thats basically what the 55g is. as i stated, this is TEMP tank!
as you obviously did not read, i did not say a 55g for a grown PBT.



have a nice day

I obviously DO read. You must be able to set up a large, established system much, much faster than myself.

What you you call temporary? I consider anything under a few weeks as temporary. Beyond that, and it's your fish's home.

You can barely cycle a large system that fast, let alone establish it adequately for it to be stable enough for a delicate fish such as a PBT. Because, if you've been doing all of this extensive reading, then you understand that your water perameters should be stable when adding one of these guys. New tanks have variances in perameters for months.

I know I am being harsh. But I get so tired of people who buy a fish, tell themselves what they want to hear, cram it in a tiny tank, promise that there is a bigger system in the works somewhere down the line, and then come here asking what to do about ich.

I understand we all start somewhere and I made mistakes just like everyone else. But don't cop an attitude when people try to help and tell you what mistakes you are making.

[Gem Tang Rider]

Originally posted by nosferatu51
UV doesn't work on ich in a single tank. The ich gets into the rocks, gravel, etc. All the UV does it remove a small amount of water-borne ich.
The true benefit of UV is in a multitank system as an in between. That way nothing gets passed between tanks since the only way around is through the UV.
In a single tank, the UV won't make a difference since the ich (and other pathogens) can get around going through it pretty easily.

I'll call that rubbish JMO.

[JamesJR]

Originally posted by prugs
I'll call that rubbish JMO.

I would have to say you are not right on this one. UV won't help get rid of ich once the fish is already infected. It can destroy the disease after the parasite reproduces and is in the free swimming stage but once it has hosted on the fish there is nothing the UV can do to help. It can be excellent at preventing some diseases but once the fish is sick it is not very effective.

[ThrowinRoost89]

i dont mid gettin corrected when im wrong, ill accept that.

but when people cop an attitude to me acting like im some dumb ____ that goes and buys a naso tang for a 55g, then ill get ****ed.
i actually wanted one till i read they get a foot and a half long. so i did not buy it for that reason.
IMO
a small tang is perfectly happy in a 55, it doesnt NEED such a big tank as a grown tang. but everyones opinions is diff.

the tank is being picked up next weekend, and the stand should be done in 2 weeks(all i need to do is build the raised panel doors)

but, right now my tank looks perfect again. i guess he has sand on him from when he rubs on the bottom?
he has one mark between his eyes, prolly from running into a rock, thats is going away to.
i got a cleaner shrimp yesterday, and its pretty cool. the tang comes by him, stops, and the shrimp jumps on him and just walks around on the side of him.

he is getting quite a belly on him, i think i may beed to slow down on the feeding.

the new tank is not going to need to cycle, im using everything from this one. and my 55 is going to be the sump.
when i swap tanks, im putting the fish 120, and going to hypo them, while the corals go in the bottom 55 with the lights.

my problem will be if i get any new fish, i have no qt tank, or any place to put it......

[ThrowinRoost89]

well i mine as well post this in here also


instead of having to set up a QT tank for new fish, i figure i can just add any fish to the main tank while i hypo them. this way, i could do everything at once.


what all would i keep in the HYPO tank to keep toxins down?

some LR and LS im guessing right? will the hypo kill any of the bacteria?





would a YT be ok in with the PBT?
would would be some nice fish to add to it?
im thinking:
midas blenny
flame angel
5 blue reef chromis




also, when addign new crabs and snails and stuff. how will i ensure the is no ich with them when i put em in my tank

[ThrowinRoost89]

i was thinkin, and a YT, midas, and like 5 chromis might be too much bioload at once.... would it


if so, i will steal a 10g from my g/f and put the chromis and midas in it, will everyone else is in the DT.


any other cool reef safe fish i could look into?

[wooden_reefer]

IMO. a 4 inch pbt can live well in an uncrowed 55 for a while, may be a year.

As long as you are committed to giving it a bigger tank, you should be fine.

What is not fine is that it has ich. Ich has to be eradicated by hypo or copper. Diet won't eradicate ich, not reliably.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally posted by ThrowinRoost89
will the hypo kill any of the bacteria?

Nitrification bacteria will not be killed by hypo if you change the salinity slowly, but bear in mind the many invertebrates (those living on mature live rock) will be killed by hypo, to give out ammonia. The ammonia may overwhelm the nitrification capacity, even if not impaired by hypo.

[BoxsterDude]

I've only been in this crazy tank world for about 5 years. IMO most fish will overcome ICH if you feed well 3 meals a day of a food of choice and kept in a good water system. Garlic will sometimes help if you soak the algae for a few hours before feeding. A good cleaner wrasse will pick off the eggs in most cases. I tried treating and generally ended up with a dead fish so I treat no more, strange "no more dead fish". I have a blue, yellow, Cole, valimenge and the blue will break out maybe once every 6-8mths. I just keep feeding and making sure my water system is maintained and he always seems to shake it. It is my understanding that ICH is a parasite that most tangs carry and depending on their environment will have a big play on an out break. Go figure your feeling ill and you have to take a trip to a QT tank, now you feel much worse. My other tangs have not caught it from him in the past 2 years. No more trips for my fish.

My advise is the 55 will be ok for transition, don't rush the cycle on the 120, two month at the very least.. and when the time comes start a few weeks early with water swaps until both systems are the same. Then use a water holding fish trap instead of the dreaded net. Fish will take a short ride to a acclimation bucket of existing tank water and then an hour drip to the new system. Travel in style.

Then add the water, fish and bucket to your new system. Let him swim out when he is ready.
Stress will be limited.

Treat em like your best girl.
Enjoy, that's why they call it a hobby and not stressful WORK!

[ThrowinRoost89]

i worry myself sich about this dam fish, i think i effed up on this purchase(not because it doesnt fit in a 55g!) i wasnt expecting all this hassle for the lil guy.

well the guy busted back out with ich about 3 days after i stopped feeding him garlic soaked nori. its worse, so i started soaking the food in garlic last night, and im going to do it untill i get the 120 set up to hopefully keep him ich free, and then i will hypo everyone to totally eradicate ich.

i cant afford to set up the tank this weekend, money would be too tight.
i need a
rodi $160
heater $50
salt $60
tank $250

so im looking at next weekend


what could be stressing him?
ill check the water params in a bit. but i do 10g a week-2 weeks.






Boxster dude:
why do i need to cycle the 120? everything in the 55 is going to the 120.

while i hypo the fish in the 120g, im going to put the LS in there with some live rock and my HOB filter in case it has some bacteria in it.
while my 55g will be the sump, and all my corals and inverts will be in there.

then after 6 weeks, everything is going to the 120 and im converting the 55 to a sump.

[LargeAngels]

Prugs: It is true what nosferatu51 stated. UV is only good for tank to tank transfer of ich.

ThrowinRoost89: Only known cures for ich is hypo or copper, neither of which are compatible with inverts. Yes, it is true that some fish can fight off the ich and live just fine which is why you have "this worked for me" statements. No food, additive, magic potion or such will work. If you want to rid your system of ich I would suggest setting up the 120 as soon as possible. Move all rock and inverts to 120. Keep fish in 55 and either use copper or hypo for 4-6 weeks. Leave 120 fishless during treatment.

[ThrowinRoost89]

here are my results of testing

nitrate 20
ph 8.1 (8:53 AM)
alk 2.74 meg/l
kh 7.4 dkh
ca 480
phos 0






the tank lights are off now, but i see he has some brownish dots on him but cannot see any white one. ill check on the white dots when i wake up




during hypo, how do i keep ammonia and trates down? water changes im guessin?

[deklin]

Originally posted by ThrowinRoost89

what could be stressing him?
ill check the water params in a bit. but i do 10g a week-2 weeks.

Well for one, nitrates of 20 is too high for a delicate fish like the PBT. Work on dropping these down. Are you skimming enough? Skim wet to remove more disolved organics. Don't overfeed the tank until you get your nitrates under control, make sure you have enough flow to keep stuff in suspension so your skimmer can do its job.

You should also be soaking food in galic xtreme or selcon on a regular basis for boosting immune systems, this isn't a short term cure. Feed a varied diet and make sure you have plenty of water movement in your tank. PBT like a lot of flow and a lot of swimming room.

Also, I've seen the debates and arguements for and against UV sterilizers... there have been several threads on this topic. Personally, I believe they provide a great benefit in slowing the population growth of the ich parasite. During an outbreak, an oversized UV sterilizer can not rid the fish host of infestation but will go a long ways towards containing the population growth of the parasite and give fish a better chance of fighting it off.

Even more important is pristine water conditions. I have a UV sterilizer and pristine water conditions (undetectable nitrates and phosphates) and as a result have seen zero ich outbreaks on a heavily stocked tank that includes delicate ich prone fish like the PBT.