IS THIS A TREND? I'M ONLY ASKING.

[MUCHO REEF]

I have noticed for some time now, that there's been a major shift on this site, as well as several other sites, to the same topics. IDing, naming and pictures are the primary focus in this forum now. Am I wrong? Please put away the 6 shooters, I'm only asking. I see many reefers asking for help with issues, concerns, die off and decay in their tanks, and those questions go untouched with zero or 1 or 2 replyies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with names, ID's and pics, that's not my focus, my concern is the lack of discussion, helping others and sharing knowledge. I know someone has their hands on the stock ready to draw, but don't. Slide it back in the holster, LOL.

Personally, I get the greatest joy out of trying to help someone out with a concern. I know for a fact that there are tons of successful Z & P keepers in this forum with an aweful lot of knowledge. So why not share it? Nothing's to big and nothing's to small to share. I just see this shift towards show & tell, or what is this called.

The one thing that I can be sure of, is this. Sooner or later, everyone of us in this forum is going to have an issue with our polyps, die off, detachment, retraction, bacterial infections, fungus, wasting away etc. If we begin a dialogue to discuss, share and debate those issues now and only a daily basis, there will be less need to run and post a dire question in a dire and suddenly bad situation and hope for a helpful solution before there's a major fatality in someone's tank. Is anyone concerned about discussing these issues? Is it that no one wants to discuss these issues? If that's the case, I will dry up and leave this alone.

I have only posted this because I have heard the same concern from many reefers in this forum and ones who use to come here and now they don't. Can we please discuss this in a civil manner and share our concerns. If I am dead wrong, I stand corrected, but I'm only concerned as many newbies are watching, listening and looking.

Hey, it's just a thought I'm offering up for discussion.

Mucho Reef

PS, I wonder if this post will even get the attention it deserves. My fingers are crossed. Thanks for reading this.

[Speckled Grouper]

I wholeheartedly agree with you Mucho.

Pictures are great, fancy names..well, that's another story...but information and knowledge are what we all came here for in the first place....and like you said, those topics get pushed down by all the ID threads.

There is no doubt in my mind that everybody that's been posting pictures and asking for ID's will get hit sooner or later with some pest or disease, I sure hope that by then, there will be some experts left to help them.

[dc_909]

I try to answer all the questions I can for others and I will try to avoid ALL "ID my zoa please" threads. I am a sucker for eye candy though!

[raider77]

I think Questions and Plea's go unanswered because everyone has a different solutions or suggestions. What worked for me might not have worked for you and there starts the debate. And now the person with the question is just as confused now as they were in the beginning.

[bower23]

Well I agree but I think the main problem with newbies (includes myself) is the search function. If I have a problem or question.. I don't really want to ask it on here. Because most of the time I just get the normal 'do a search'. And I see the point but I can't because I have to pay to do so. I see the need for Reef Central to make money somehow to pay for itself. But if you are a new person, paying just to use a function on a site that you might not want to visist very often is not something everyone is going to do. I myself love Reefcentral and visit when I can but I'm not going to pay for something that should be free. I'm a member on a lot of other sites and for other topics, but this is the only forum site I've seen that wants to charge people to do a search. As I become more involved I'm sure I'll give it up. But for a new person that needs help.. post a question.. get a response of 'do a search'.. then finds out he has to pay 25 bucks just to get help. This is not a way to get new people to stay. They instead will go to their LFS and get the wrong advice and more than likely get out of the hobby. So instead we are going to have lots of 'show and tell' threads started because they cost nothing. No searching needed. I'm not saying that any view on this is right or wrong, I'm just stating how this whole 'pay to use' thing makes me feel about ReefCentral. Don't get me wrong, I love the site and I love the topics... I would have to say that the fee topic is the only thing I don't like about it. And the fact that people actualy take the time to make a post that says ' do a search '. If you click on a topic it's because you have intrest or information, so why take the time to post nothing? If you are going to bother using your keyboard and mouse then do it to help someone or share something. This is not a database, it's a forum. I think some people have forgotten that.

[theplatypus]

YOu don't have to pay money to search. It is just restricted at peak hours. Try searching early in the morning or later at night.

[MUCHO REEF]

raider77, can we allow that to become a deterrent? I have always said that no two systems are identical, that said, should one not ask a question merely because it might start a debate? I think debates are great, it's the fighting and flaming that I won't lower myself to. I say ask the question, any question. If someone smarts off at you for asking it, I will be more than happy to defend your right and anyone else's right to ask anything.

True, what worked for me, might not work for you. But I can assure you one thing, it you watch and monitor your system closely, you can prevent most of what negatively impacts your system. I check my tank every morning at 5 AM. I give a 5 minute quick scan of my entire system. I visually check every single piece of coral in my tank every morning. I know what each piece should look like and what it looked like before I went to bed the night before. I scan the entire system for hardware failures and potential leaks, I do all of this in 5 minutes each morning. If I find an issue, I jump right on it. There is never more than 12 that will pass before I catch something that has transpired in my system.

If someone becomes confused my an issue or an answer, I charge you to simply say, "I don't understand", and I'm sure one of the fine reefers in this forum will step up to the plate with a explanation.

bower23, again, don't be afraid to ask for anything on this site.

I agree with this % 200, "If you click on a topic it's because you have interest or information, so why take the time to post nothing? If you are going to bother using your keyboard and mouse then do it to help someone or share something. This is not a database, it's a forum. I think some people have forgotten that."


Mucho trying

[bower23]

I often post answer to question that I'm not completely sure about. And that may be were a debate would start. But it's not because I'm trying to confuse.... I'm just trying to help in any way that I can. My experience is limited but I would rather try and help than ignore someone in need. And thanks for agreeing Mucho Reef. Plus, I do know about the google search and thanks everyone for making sure that I knew. But I was just trying to give an example of possible reasons for a new person to be scared off.

[sambo123]

I think there should be a link at the top of this forum for Zoaid.com thats states "look here before posting an ID ?" It would help alot, and instead of posting a pic asking for a name just do it to show a pic of a Z/P that isnt seen often and looks interesting. And the bottom line is that if its not on zoaid.com you can call it whatever you feel like, so dont ask for a name b/c chances are if its not on zoaid.com it doesnt have a name.

[MUCHO REEF]

I have lost count of how many times I have found a Z or a P on line in 4 different places, all with a different name. The same has been true in LFS, I don't even ever bother to ask for a name and when they tell me the name out of the blue, I stop them. Not being rude, but the name isn't why I am there. If I like it, I buy, period.

Sorry to go off topic.

Mucho

[MTB]

Bravo, Mucho for bring this to light. I have lost interest in the Zoanthids topic 'cause of all the ID posts. This topic lost alot of the information and debates that got me hooked to it (and Zoo''s in general) last summer.

[lpsfiend]

Maybe a sub-forum for just zoo id's? Then you could just enforce people posting in that and keep the zoo forum for discussions. That's how that that other zoo forum does it and it works out pretty well.

While they are add it can they add a zoo trading and selling sub-forum?

Thanks

[edwing206]

I think that those two subforums that lpsfiend suggested are VERY GOOD ideas. They would definantley unclog the zoanthids forum from all those ID threads.

[drjuice28]

It seems to me that it's really everyone's attempt at hoping they've got something special, hoping that they got a really rare specimen, and wanting others on the forum to reinforce their beliefs. Yeah, it's really nice to get your hands on something that is difficult to come by, but it really strays away from the basis of the hobby.
If you want money in your tank so that you can hope to profit from it later, open a business. If you want great looking corals because you love them and their care, post me a pic. I'd love to see what your interests in reef keeping have created.
What I don't need to see, is a bunch of yahoos essentially asking "what's this worth?", "How rare is this?".
Kudos to those out there who do it for the love of the hobby.

[MUCHO REEF]

I can all but assure you that the staff won't agree to a selling sub forum. The rules were designed to make this a discussion only forum and to keep selling in its place, the selling forum. If you open this forum up to a sub forum, all hell will break lose. If the mases feel otherwise, I think numerous PM's to the mods would place it on the table.


As for a ID sub forum, there was a thread that some utilized, but then it got pushed to the 2nd page, then the third and so on.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...ght=mucho+reef

That was a place for all of the ID's to receive persistant attention from those who could answer collectively, instantly.

I don't think this forum has honestly realized its potential. I ask each of you, how many times have you made your concerns or request known to the mods? You should, that's what they are there for. If you don't get an answer, PM me, and I'll tank it to them in our Team forum. You guys/gals are the soul of this site and this forum in particular. If you have an idea, concern or suggested, I, (we) would love to hear it. That is how progress and changes comes about.

Mucho Reef

[SnailBert]

IMO rc's coral forums are nothing but reefers posting photos here to gather interest and then selling them in the selling forum a few weeks later if enough people oogle them.
Everyone seems to be striving to have the next best anything on here. The next LE, the next TOTM, the next 10 page thread, anything to make a name for themself on here. Everyone whose made a name for themself on here sells out and names morphs, collects them and sells them. If THAT wasn't the trend, then I'd say yes, there's a way the ID trends will cease, but no one is doing anything to change that.
"Your PPE's arent from Blane, so they arent real PPE's"

Everyone wants to be the next Blane Perun, the next Tyree. Stop that and your trend will stop, but we both know that's not going to happen. That's just how it is.

[ficklefins]

Mucho,

We have discussed this topic both on the public and private side. You know as well as I do, how a lot of the dedicated zoa keepers have found other outlets because of the recent trends on here. So keep in mind that the following opinion is "MINE AND MINE ALONE".

I believe that RC has become to big for it's limited Forums. I do not believe that having one forum to address all SPS, or LPS, or Zoanthid questions is going to work.

There are so many questions at different levels that eventually it becomes a majority rules atmosphere. With zoas having more and more new hobbyists you are going to find more basic questions with advanced topics not being touched. If you want people to address more advanced topics then you have to keep them at the top so they don't get lost in other topics. Keep in mind that I am not suggesting that people not post basic questions, I just believe that there is a better way of addressing more advanced topics.

Example. So when someone brings up a topic that will benefit all zoanthid keepers the mods should sticky it so that it keeps others attention. In addition to this, the zoanthid forum needs to be cleaned up a bit in terms of its current stickies. If you want people to address important topics then don't make it an effort for them to find it. I know that sounds lazy but I have a hard time finding topics when I have to go back through a few pages worth of topics.

So in the end I think that the biggest issue is that all zoanthid questions from beginner topics, ID threads, advanced topics, propagation questions, and fish compatibility get posted in the same area. How does one forum cover that many topics while trying to keep advanced topics in focus? Tough call buddy.

[MUCHO REEF]

I think you should forward this to all of the mods,

"I believe that RC has become to big for it's limited Forums. I do not believe that having one forum to address all SPS, or LPS, or Zoanthid questions is going to work."

Maybe they will bite on this and make a change. You never know.


"There are so many questions at different levels that eventually it becomes a majority rules atmosphere. With zoas having more and more new hobbyists you are going to find more basic questions with advanced topics not being touched. If you want people to address more advanced topics then you have to keep them at the top so they don't get lost in other topics. Keep in mind that I am not suggesting that people not post basic questions, I just believe that there is a better way of addressing more advanced topics"

I think there is more than enough room for newbie and advanced zoanthid topics alike. I wasn't saying that I wanted more advance discussions, I just want to see more discussions period. I'm certainly not above discussing some Zoanthid 101 issues, I'm cool with that. As long as there's exchange.

There are 8 stickies currently and 25 availible post slots. You can wipe out every single sticky and if there is still no on going discussions on a daily basis, what have we gained. If everyone wants my stickies removed, please PM the mods and I'm sure they will remove them with no behind close door intervention on my part. I only care about helping, listening, learning and sharing.

"So in the end I think that the biggest issue is that all zoanthid questions from beginner topics, ID threads, advanced topics, propagation questions, and fish compatibility get posted in the same area. How does one forum cover that many topics while trying to keep advanced topics in focus? Tough call buddy."

I don't think it's a tough call at all, again, more involvement will create a more exciting place for thought provoking discussions. I really think it would be a great idea if you shared your ideas with the mods. I would send a copy to each of them ASAP and ask for a quick reply.

Glad you posted my friend.

Mucho Reef

PS, remember, I was only asking, LOL

[MTB]

How about a sticky for id's and another for "show me the zoanthids." Just a thought.

[MUCHO REEF]

Sounds like a winner to me. You should start a thread and ask the mods to make it a sticky.

Mucho

[raider77]

Way to go Mucho! I think this thread will generate a much needed spark for this forum. And I agree with you every question should be asked or answered. I guess a little debate is better then no response at all.

[hot4teacher]

I would agree with what has been said thus far. I only browse this section once every few weeks instead of daily as I used to. Reasons? Well, I felt there were too many ID threads and many questions that were already answered that could be attained by searching (yes I realize the peak hours deal).

I would be in favor of the different sub-categories within the Zoanthid section. Good topics won't disappear to page 3 in a couple of days and we can post our questions in more specific areas, leading to better answers. I personally would tend to the frag/disease type section and probably avoid the ID section altogether.

I'm not certain more than a handful of posters here are in it for the money... and it isn't too hard to see their true intentions after a few posts.

Possible sections:

photos
ID's
fragging
disease
beginner
advanced



Just my $.02

Dana

[CoralNutz]

Well I'm not sure how welcome my posts are around here, but here goes....

1. I agree that there should be at least a Zoa ID sub-forum. The long running thread isn't very helpful for people as it falls off the front page, plus it just gets too long for a simple ID question. I have to disagree that all hell will break loose because of some sub-forums. Seems to work fabulous other places.

2. Bringing your concerns to the mods around here doesn't always get you a happy response. More often then not, the responses I have gotten were things like, "you wanna complain, go somewhere else" and other things similar to that. I'm not saying that all the mods are bad around here, but the ones I have dealt with were less than friendly. Trust me, I have brought dozens and dozens of ideas to the mods around here only to be ignored. So I've found other avenues to impliment those same ideas and they are working great. I think that's the number one thing with RC that they could improve on. Just look at what Mucho is saying, we all need to send these requests to the mods. This is pretty silly, what it really sounds like to me is that they aren't going to take the time to listen to one mans idea, they won't begin to listen until the masses demand it. It's much easier to find another board that listens to the members rather than beat your head against the wall and get threatened by timeouts just to voice your idea.

3. I think if you had mods in each forum here that were actually into that coral and participated in the community, that would help a lot more. You don't really see mods post around here much unless they are posting a new rule, or scolding someone.

4. The search engine!!! I know, I know, it's not going to change so quit complaining. It's pretty amazing to me that with all the sponsorship money for more resources they can't let the search engine work for everyone. Really makes me think that they just don't want the search engine turned on for everyone so people will just create another post, wich in turn bloats their statistics to make things look more happening then they may really be. Kind of a marketing gimic IMO. Same reason they don't prune inactive members.

4. I think ReefCentral as a whole is a fabulous wealth of knowledge. But it is soooo huge that I see most serious reefers move onto other sites that are a little smaller and more personable. This is too bad as it leaves a lot of the newer people alone over here and that's why the serious discussions have gone.

[MinibowMatt]

Basically, I dont think there is any need for ID threads, let alone an ID section. The only reason people are looking for ID's is to see if they can make money off their zoos. The ID craze has caused more colonies to be fragged up and stressed than anything else we can do in this hobby.
I agree with hot4Teacher, too many people on the Zoa board are in it for the money. they dont care about helping they just want to show off what they have, and solicit buyers. Granted, nobody is out-right asking for buyers, but we all know that when I new morph or pic gets posted, dozens of PMs for frags follow.

This forum is fine like it is, the people using it need to change.


Oh and yes, not being able to search sux, but people can always use google to search RC...

[CoralNutz]

Matt....

I agree that too many people are in this hobby for the money. The other shame is when forums for reef hobbiests are all about the money and stop listening to what their members ask for.