Bad trading experience with N_Sarno

[Newreeflady]

Against my better judgement, I decided to trade with someone with few posts and without any feedback. Well, I hope that this feedback helps to guide future transactions with this person.

The agreement was that we would do a thermos trade: My ricordea and green shroom for his ricordea and a frag of zoos. I stated I would prefer one of two types of the zoos he had. He asked me to ship first, saying he knew nothing about shipping. I told him that we needed to have an agreement that if something didn't make it, he would still ship back to me and I would replace whatever was lost for him once I had the stock to do it. Nick never expressly said "ok" to any of my requests, but rather just went ahead and said this sounded good, etc.

I shipped out on Monday and priority screwed up and the package got there on Friday all beat up. Unfortunately, the ricordea was lost. He told me this was the case and said he didn't want to ship me his ricordea now, maybe we could trade at another time and he'd just ship me the zoos. Now, kicking myself, I realize that this guy is completely unreliable and I tell him fine, just ship the zoos. Now I just want to recover the thermos I forked out $10 for. I did tell him that if he ships as we agreed I will of course replace the ricordea (it would probably take about 2-3 weeks for my next frag to grow out.)

Well, the next day I decide to appeal to this person and ask that he do what we agree on. I knew he had no intention, but decided i'd rather him know that this is not right and that he should ship as we agreed on. He gives me a sob story about being only 18 years old and having just two ricordea polyps. He tells me that he's just going to ship the zoos, I was "fine with that." I re-appeal, but to no avail, he ships me zoos, and neither of the ones I asked for but rather some teal colored ones (not very brilliant, really.) And, he decided not to use priority (probably due to the first loss) and uses DHL with bubble envelope... needless to say, my thermos is also broken now.

Funny thing, this poor kid with only two ricordea is now selling a large rock of ricordea for $120 in the selling forum.

Best of luck to all who trade with this one, if I have to give a word of advice it would be don't ship to him without having recieved something from him (payment, other coral, etc.) first.

Sorry for the loss of the ricordea, Nick. I sure which you could have honored the deal. Being 18 is not an excuse for being unreliable.

-Angela

[N_Sarno]

Angela,

It is funny how you left out the fact that I just got the new ricordia from my cousin and yes I am selling half, but I offered to send you one of these rics and you declined.

Let me share our email messages w/ everyone.

Here is my email letting you know of the problem

> > > > >From: Nick Sarno
> > > > >To: Angela x x x x
> > > > >Subject: Re: I shipped your corals...
> > > > >Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 10:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >Angela,
> > > > >
> > > > > I rec'd the package just now.. it was severly beat up, the box
>that
> > >is,
> > > > >and I opened the thermo and found it filled w/ brown water. One
>small
> > >bag
> > > > >had brown water and a floppy brown stick in it.. not sure what that
> > >was..
> > > > >it smells so I'm assuming its dead.. the next one was clear water
>and
> > >had
> > > > >the green bumpy shroom in it it looks like it will be fine, and
> >finally
> > > >the
> > > > >other bag which had the ric in it is the one that leaked and it was
> > > >pretty
> > > > >much dry w/ a small piece of lr.. Im guessing this contained the
> > > >ricordia..
> > > > >and the smelly brown water is all that is left of it... Let me know
> > >what
> > > > >you want to do. I know that you said you had no more ricordia.. so
>if
> > >you
> > > > >want I will send you the zoos as promised and when you get more
>rics
> > > >maybe
> > > > >we can try trading again? Let me know what you think.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nick

and your response

> > > >Angela x x x x wrote:
> > > > Hi, I am really sorry to hear that. I assumed everything would be
>dead
> > > >at
> > > >this point, it was shipped out on Monday morning so this is really
>late
> > > >arrival. I have never had such bad luck with priority mail before
> > > >
> > > >Well, I do have more ricordea, but it isn't quite ready to ship yet.
>I
> > >have
> > > >two frags that are growing out. I can definitely hold one for you and
> > >ship
> > > >it to you and hope for a better situation next time. In the mean
>time,
> > >the
> > > >agreement was that you would ship what we agreed on and that i'd
> >replace
> > > >what was lost when I have the frag ready. Is that still what you want
> >to
> > > >do?
> > > >If not, I guess ship the zoos and we'll just call it even.
> > > >
> > > >Let me know. Sorry again, what bad luck
> > > >Angela

why did you suddenly decide to change your mind... anyway, let me share more... my response to the above email

> > > >From: Nick Sarno
> > > >To: Angela x x x x
> > > >Subject: Re: I shipped your corals...
> > > >Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 21:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Hey Angela,
> > > >
> > > > If its ok, I'll just send the zoos.. I'll see if I can find
>something
> > > >else small to send to as I feel bad! I'd hate to send a ricordia to
>you
> > > >since I only have a couple... Why dont you let me know when your
>other
> > >rics
> > > >are ready and maybe we can try again.
> > > >
> > > > Nick

[N_Sarno]

and more

and then your sudden change

> > >Angela x x x x wrote:
> > > Nick, honestly, I think it is terrible that the ricordea didn't make
>it.
> > >Normally with thermos trades most things make it, but most people kinda
> > >have
> > >an unspoken agreement. We will agree to ship things and chance it. You
> > >would
> > >have sent me the ricordea had you shipped first, would you have
>expected
> >me
> > >to back out if it didn't make it?
> > >
> > >I will not fret over this. However, I hope you'll understand that I am
>a
> > >little bit upset that you have broken our agreement. I would not
>suggest
> > >that you do any thermos trading in the future. It costed me money,
>coral
> > >and
> > >time to ship to you, I even offered to ship first and agreed to replace
> > >anything that died when I have the stock. Really, I feel that you are
>not
> > >holding your part of this bargain.
> > >
> > >Please ship my thermos back. Put whatever you want in it, I don't
>really
> > >care to do further trading with you if you will not sihp what we agreed
> >on.
> > >
> > >Best,
> > >Angela

my response

> > >From: Nick Sarno
> > >To: Angela x x x x
> > >Subject: Re: I shipped your corals...
> > >Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 14:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Angela,
> > >
> > > Im very sorry you feel this way, I totally understand your point
> > >however. But I am only 18 and can hardly afford to fund this hobby as
>it
> > >is, let alone take losses by sending you one of my rics. You sounded ok
> > >with this in your previous email. You stated that I could just send the
> > >zoos like planned if I wanted. Sorry it had to work out like this. As a
> > >precaution, and a "im sorry" I guess... I will send you thermo back w/
> >the
> > >zoos as planned and whatever else I can find.. via next day delivery so
> >it
> > >will cost me more money to ship.. Again im very sorry it had to happen
> >this
> > >way, and its not like me to back out on something.. but like I said im
>18
> > >and can hardly afford the hobby etc.
> > >
> > > Nick


ok now I will skip a couple emails and go to this...

> >From: Nick Sarno
> >To: Angela x x x x
> >Subject: Re: I shipped your corals...
> >Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 15:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Your zoos went out today via next day DHL.. I just sent them so they will
> >have minimal transit time.. your tracking number is 339667 43510

your response

>Angela x x x x wrote:
> Wow, what a coincidence that you have a whole bunch of ricordea all of a
>sudden.
>
>I got your zoos today, the bag leaked but they were fine (zoos are pretty
>hardy as you know.) They are neither of the ones I asked you for, they
>appear greenish in color. DHL, while fast, does not handle packages with
>any
>care (not that usps did a great job, either.) The DHL guy chucked the
>package up at my porch. The thermos is broken, another $10 down the drain.
>
>I have to tell you, this has been the worst trading experience i've had
>yet.
>I shipped you one of my two prize ricordea and you did not return the
>favor.
>I shipped you a green shroom and kindly asked for the pink/purple or
>fire/ice in exchange and I got green/teal zoos. I purchased the thermos,
>and
>it is broken now because it wasn't packaged well.
>
>So, I hope you don't expect any good feedback to come of this trade. I
>understand that part of my shipment died on you as well, however at least I
>agreed to replace it. We had an agreement you would ship what we planned
>on,
>and you backed out. This will be reflected in my feedback on RC.


my response

From: Nick Sarno
>To: Angela x x x x
>Subject: Re: I shipped your corals...
>Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 18:41:35 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Angela,
>
> The zoos I sent were from my mixed colony of watermelons and greens. I
>fragged it.. There are watermelons on your frag. Sorry DHL didnt do a good
>job. But thats not my fault! It was packed well w/ peanuts and bubble wrap.
>You offered to replace the ric yes but you dont have one now so how could I
>agree to that? I said that once you get the other ric ready and send it
>that i'd send you yours. I just got these other rics as a trade w/ my
>cousin you shouldnt jump to conclusions.. and actually I planned on sending
>you one of these but if you are going to be ignorant forget about it. I
>just cant believe how you could go back on all these statements as well and
>think that I'm the only one at fault here. Would you want one of these
>rics, or no? This is nuts pretty crappy for my first trade I hope all of
>them wont be like this!
>
> Nick

[N_Sarno]

Your response...

Nick,

Well, I haven't seen the watermelons open yet, then. I am sure they are
nice, but after all we really were first and foremost trading ricordea here.
And, you DID agree to wait on another ricordea if something went wrong. I
was very clear about the fact that sometimes things do not make it in
priority. We saw this happen. Of course you should still have shipped your
ricordea to me, I can't believe you would argue this point. This is why I
wanted to ship more than one item in a thermos trade, because sometimes not
everything makes it. I did not have to offer replacement, even if I did not
you still should have shipped yours out. I offered replacement when I had
another grow out. I have two that are growing out and you would have been
the first to get the next one.

I am not going to ask you for one of those ricordea. You should have shipped
me the one we agreed on. I just found it funny that one day your giving me a
sob story, the next day you've got things for sale at more than $100!

Bottom line, my shipment did not come in good order. But, you still folded
on your end of the bargain. You sent half of what was promised. I would have
never done that. If you had shipped first, and your ricordea died, I would
have shipped to you anyway because we had an agreement. There is no way I
would ship anything to you first now, and I hope that others will follow the
same policy. I'm sure your stuff is very nice, but you can't be trusted so
you should have to ship first.

Best of luck in your future trading, I hope that YOU start to hold up YOUR
end of the bargain. I am sure you will have better experiences if you do.

Angela

and my final response

Angela,

Whatever I say isnt going to make you happy, so I guess I will just cease communication with you. I offered to make things right because and you declined so there is nothing more I can do. In my future trades, I will be sure to clarify w/ the other person about what to do in the event of die off.. I will also not be shipping via priority mail anymore. Also dont say that I cannot be trusted I offered to make things right but you declined. I also went ahead and spent more money to send you your zoos next day so that the same wouldnt happen. It was unfortunate that your thermo broke, if that is really even the case! I could have not shipped anything at all if I were so "dishonest." For all I know there might not have even been a ricordia in that bag, all it was was brown water w/ a white rock, I'll just go ahead and make these accusation towards you since your so quick to jump to conclusions about me. Also regarding the rics as I said before I rec'd these other rics as a trade from my cousin who sells corals, if I had them when we first dealt with eachother I would have offered one of them to you over the green/blue ones I have since I only have 2 of them and I have now 21+ of these yellow rics. Anyway, Im done w/ all of this.

Good luck with your reefing

Nick


Thus proving that you cannot be pleased and that the only negative in this whole experience is you.

Nick

[Newreeflady]

Give up, Nick. You're posting chopped up messages makes no sense and only shows how immaturely you are handling this.

I stand by everything I said. Just like e-bay, I felt it necessary to share this information with others. I wish this type of review had been here before I decided to send anything to you first.

-Angela

[N_Sarno]

Im not being immature at all, you are just being impossible. You go ahead and stand by everything you said. The emails prove my point.

[Newreeflady]

Nick, I will make this my last reply to you. Your e-mails do nothing but show that you did back out on what you said you would send. Offering to send me ricordea of a different species than we agreed on after you already mailed back to me was nice, but it is not what we agreed on and it will not change the fact that you did not make good on our agreement.

I am not impossible. We made a deal, you did not hold up your end of the bargain. It really is just that simple.

-Angela

[floridareefs]

seems to me me Nick held up his side of the bargain. Shipping corals is a risky business and it looks like there was not good handling from either USPS or DHL from each of you. At least, you got some zoos, and you did mention that he send you whatever zoos he had in that e-mail. and he got a ric.

Call it even already and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

[Newreeflady]

Well, since you didn't get the whole story from reading the e-mails, maybe we should have Nick post the pms as well. The deal was that I would ship "x" and he would ship "y" regardless of the condition in which "x" came in. As part of the agreement, if part of "x" were to die, I would replace them later. He agreed. Yet, he only shipped 1/2 of "y" to me. This is one half of the agreement.

Again, I repeat: The agreement was for y where y = zoos + ric. I was not sent ric, therefore the agreement was not met.

***

You know, maybe people, including Nick, are having trouble placing themselves in my position here. Let's consider a couple of scenarios:

Scenario 1: What if Nick had shipped first and his Ricordea had died in transit. According to the agreement we had, I should still ship him all items we agreed on and even though Nick would only then have one Ricordea left, I would wait and when he propegated it he would ship it to me. This would be fair, of course, because this was the agreement.

So, what would be unfair? If I decided to back out on the agreement and only ship Nick the mushroom, even though I had already said that if anything died i'd still ship all as expected.

Scenario 2: What if my entire shipment died in transit to Nick? As per our agreement Nick should still ship what we agreed on and he would have to wait for me to re-propegate and re-ship to him later on.

Scenario 3: What if the zoos that Nick had shipped to me had died in transit to me. Now, not only would he have only complied with half of the agreement, but I lose 100% because nothing comes through at all.

Now, folks, it may be unclear to some what happens with priority trading. These are not overnight trades! Not everything will make it every time. This is why usually both parties will ship several items to make it worth while in case something dies. Should the first party to ship get the short end of the stick? Of course not!! Then, no one would want to ship first and nothing would be traded.

I hope that this helps for people to think critically about why this is unacceptable.

Angela

[N_Sarno]

Who cares about the scenarios whats done is done. As I've said 100 times I offered to make things right even though you have been very rude ever since I told you the ric died, but you still denied. Again as I said before, you are impossible. Thanks flordiareefs... I could have been a real jerk and sent nothing. Also as far as the "agreement" you are saying we should post PMS.. I never said OK I'll send you my ric if yours died.. and to me thinking about it now.. it seems fishy that you were so dead set on that "agreement" which makes me wonder if a ric was ever sent.. beacuse I think that if a coral died.. there would be more left then just brown water.. there would be particals or something.. maybe im wrong who knows.... but regardless its done, and I'm done dealing with all of this.. You got your zoos.. I got my bumpy mushroom.. sorry your out your ric.. but I didnt get a ric out of the deal either.. does it suck for you.. sure.. but I offered to make things right and you denied so forget it!

Nick

[Newreeflady]

Nick, offering to make things right would be offering to send the ric. You didn't do this, you offered what was convenient for you.

Of course I sent you coral, it is obserd you would think I sent you brown water! Man, what a laugh.

And, of course there should be an agreement on what to do if things don't make it. As you can see, things don't always make it. I tried to make an agreement of this. If you were unhappy with the agreement you could have at least told me that you could not do this instead of just keeping quiet and saying, it sounds good, etc. That way I wouldn't have traded with you. But, you knew this, and wanted the ric, which is why you instead just figured if it died you'd back out then.

You are very dishonest, Nick. You insisted on this trade for the ricordea and I told you if we were going to trade just a couple of things we'd need to have an agreement. You broke it when things didn't go your way. That is wrong. I am sure that when you grow up you will see this.

-A

[cwegescheide]

Note to self: Dont trade with either of these people!!!

[JmLee]

Originally posted by cwegescheide
Note to self: Dont trade with either of these people!!!

lol

[smiller]

Closed