How To Rid Cyano And Other Pest Algaes

[JessieSp]

Thanks for all the replies! I have several more ideas now and get the picture that this may be a months long project as opposed to weeks. I can handle that as long as I know it isn't hopeless.

Keven - I don't test my own water so I can't answer the chem questions. I have my local fish store guy do it. He's very honest and never tries to sell me anything. I'll get a kit today though so I can test more frequently. I can tell you that several weeks ago, my Ph was "a little low" and my amonia was "a little high" - both were immediately corrected with a large water change.

I have a 37 gallon tank that houses a few fish (nowhere near bio-overload), an anmeone, a clownfish (who loves to stir up the sand), a scooter blennie (also loves to stir), and several crabs - one huge hermit, six tiny hermits, and a fiddler. I have live sand which I thought would take care of any calcium deficiancies.

I don't have a skimmer because I have an Eclipse system which is a closed system that uses carbon and bio wheel filtration. Unfortunately, I can't add any periferals. One other thing I can tell you is that the vast majority of the slime (all of it really) is in only areas of high circulation - such as on the glass directly in front of the bio wheel dump and on the sand in the middle of the tank.

I would love to add plants and/or corals, but am limited because of the closed filtration system - I have the brightest lights available for such a system (enabling me to have live sand and rock) but have been told I would not be able to keep corals.

Is this better information for you? Thanks so much for all your help!!!

Jessie

[kmk2307]

Hi Jessie,
I think the best advice I can give you is to look into using RO/DI water which is purified water that contains (essentially) no phosphates, silicates, or nitrates. Those are the big three chemicals that feed algae. Some fish stores sell premixed RO/DI saltwater and if you can't find one that does check out local grocery stores for a "drinking water station" (or whatever they like to call it) where you can fill up jugs of purified water and then use that purified water to mix your saltwater and for evaporation topoff.

Live plants or macroalgae like Caulerpa can be attractive and as they grow export nitrates and phosphates by using them for food. If your anemone is getting enough light, I'm sure Caulerpa would be fine. Do you know how many watts of light you have over your tank? As a side note, anemones need just as much light as corals so your anemone might not be getting enough light if you were told you couldn't keep corals. You might want to consider getting some Caulerpa to grow. If you do go with Caulerpa note that it can "go sexual" and pollute your water. If you do a search on "caulerpa sexual" here on RC you'll find lots of info. To prevent caulerpa from going sexual trim it every few months and you said you run activated carbon anyway so the risk of harming your water if the caulerpa were to go sexual is pretty low.

You said you planned on getting some test kits. The big two are nitrate and phosphate if you are having algae trouble. If you were having ammonia problems be sure to keep checking up on that for a while but usually an established tank shouldn't have any ammonia problems.

Keep us posted on the situationi and good luck!
Kevin

[JessieSp]

Thanks again, Kevin! I've always used RO water (Denver water is very hard and I don't trust it at all) so I'm a little confused about why I got the slime problem in the first place. I may have been overfeeding in the beginning (you have to admit watching your fishies eat is a huge thrill for a beginner!). And the fact that I was doing deep sand cleaning before I found out that was bad may have contributed.

I'll definately look into soft corals and macroalgae. My anemone is thriving, so they might too. Everyone has a different opinion - have you ever noticed??

I have one 10,000K "Ocean Sun" bulb and one 420 actinc "Coral Sun" bulb. I just got back from the fish store with one of those multi-testing kits and it has both of the tests you recommended. Now I'm off to do a water change (if my two year old will let me!).

Thanks again!
J

[SAT]

I think it's worth reviewing that cyano and problem algae actually need. kmk2307 is right that the "big three" nutrients are phosphates, nitrates, and silicates. However, our different pest species vary in which they use.

All plants, including all algae, need nitrogen and phosphorous. If you have an adequate supply of usable nitrogen and phosphorous, plus enough light to support photosynthesis, you will be growing algae. The only question is what kind.

Diatoms are a special case because they require silicon to build their shells. Lacking available silicon (silicates), diatoms can't grow. If there's plenty of silicon, however, diatoms may have an advantage. Note that diatoms need nitrogen and phosphorous just like all other plants, so it's only partiallly true that silicates "cause" diatom blooms.

At least some flavors of cyanobacteria, which isn't really a plant at all, are capable of fixing nitrogen from the air. If nitrates are in short supply, cyanobacteria has an advantage over algae.

As previously discussed, keeping your phosphates low will slow down the growth of all plant species and cyanobacteria. As many have discovered, that's harder than it sounds. Note that many phosphate test kits don't detect organic forms of phosphorous, so a reading of zero does not demonstrate a total lack.

As previously noted, skimming helps cut down on phosphates, particularly if you feed kalkwasser into the skimmer. Phosphate sponges help, but probably only work on the inorganic forms. Activated carbon will remove many of the organic forms. Note that carbon becomes saturated after a short time, so to be effective it needs to be renewed frequently.

As an adjunct strategy to combatting cyano, you might consider encouraging the growth of other plant species. Regular exports of plant material from a refugium, for instance, should help.

You might also consider dosing silicates. Given a choice, I would much rather be dealing with diatoms than cyano or hair algae. Randy Holmes-Farley doses silicates in his tank, although perhaps not for this reason. Search for silicates in the chemistry forum for information on that.

[JessieSp]

Sheesh! I guess I need to go out and get a biology degree to succeed in this hobby! Well, I always harbored secret fantasies about being a marine biologist...

Okay, I just added a large clump of caulerpa, more maracyn, live bacteria, and an amonia buffer. I tested for amonia yesterday and it was just barely registering, but it was there (one hour after a 25% water change). I also tested for phosphate today. Anyone know what it means when the water turns green instead of blue?? It was very pale green. weird.

Jessie

[offdapeggs]

I have a tank that has been up for a couple of month's with uncured live rock. it has just fully cycled. there was some sponges ect that died off in the tank so My nitrates are 30ppm.
I have been using RO water from a grocery store.
it is not DI, at least not that I can tell and they would probably market it that way if it was.
anyway I have just had a massive bloom of cyano. could the water I have been using still have phosphates? One of the earlier posts alluded to this.
I plan on doing a water change tonight to pull out some of the nitrates, and start running some carbon, or phosphate sponge.

also my ph is a little low, can I use baking soda to bring that up.
my calcium is 400

so I guess i should..

do a water change
start running some sort of Phosphate and or carbon in the sump
get my ph up
buy a phosphate test kit. are they accurate?
if the ro water i am adding has phosphates, get ro\di water

[kmk2307]

Hey offdapegs,

If the water isn't RO/DI or even if the RO membrane is old its possible the water still has phosphates. Have you done a water change since cycling the live rock? There was probably a lot of organic phosphates released when the rock died off. I'm not sure what to say about the baking soda but I know there are lots of methods to affect pH so I'm gonna let someone else help you with that -- don't want to give you bad info! I don't think its a bad idea to run carbon or a phosphate sponge just be sure to read the directions on the phosphate sponge as some work quickly (like 24 hours) but then need to be removed as they can leach phosphates back into the water. Lastly, a good brand phosphate test kit should be accurate but note that some can't detect organic phosphates which algae are capable of using so a reading of zero sometiems doesn't really mean zero. Can anyone recommend a brand of phosphate test kit?

Good luck and HTH,
Kevin

[SAT]

Originally posted by offdapeggs
I buy a phosphate test kit. are they accurate?

Interesting question. A positive result from a phosphate kit indicates you have a problem. Depending on the kit, a negative result may or may not be meaningful.

You don't really need a test kit to tell if you have phosphate in your tank. If you're growing algae of any kind, you have phosphate.

If you're using tap water, or any water that you're not sure of, it's a good idea to test it. Since you probably only need to check your source water occasionally, getting your LFS or a lab to do it might make sense.

glaspak845 set the bar at 0.03ppm PO4. Before you buy a test kit, see if it can detect that low. Replacement water should be significantly below this level.

I have a Hach model PO-19 kit which can detect that low and reads both phosphate and ortho-phosphate. That means it picks up at least some of the organic forms. You buy Hach off their web site (http://www.hach.com). I havn't used any other phosphate kits, so I can't compare them.

[fishman9168]

This is my first post on the forum also. I have a 30g reef that has been set up for around 8 months. I do a 10% water change once a month and have never had a problem keeping any of the residents alive (except for a couple of colt corals which I just cant seem to keep going). Now I do have this one patch of red wavy (hair blowing in the wind)looking stuff that is only in one patch on one rock and it has been there for a couple of months now but has not spread. It is kind of pretty because of the way it waves in the current but I dont know if it's just a different form of what you guys are talking about and if it's something I need to get rid of or just leave it alone. Let me know. I will try to post a pic of it sometime this weekend.

Cliff

[kmk2307]

Hi Cliff,
[welcome]

If it's not taking anything over then I wouldn't worry about it. There are lots of different types of algae and some grow rapidly and some grow slowly. Sorry to hear about the colt corals. If you have any more questions just let us know!

Hope this helps (HTH),
Kevin

[fishman9168]

Here is a pic of my tank and the red algae I have. Can anyone identify this red algae? It is the patch between the two toadstools.

Cliff

[kmk2307]

Hi Cliff,
From a distance that looks like cyanobacteria. I guess that cyano can have something of a hairy appearance. Can you get a closerup picture? Your tank is pretty awesome dude. That Bubble coral has an awesome green color!

HTH,
Kevin

[SAT]

Originally posted by SAT
I have a Hach model PO-19 kit which can detect that low and reads both phosphate and ortho-phosphate. That means it picks up at least some of the organic forms.

Just a correction... "orthophosphate" is the common inorganic form of phosphorus, basically just another name for "phosphate". So the Hach test kit is not effective at measuring organic phosphorus. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

[yardboy]

Further clarification, as far as I know, any posphate test that doesn't have some sort of acid digestion is not going to measure organic posphates either, so that eliminates any "dip-stick" method. I guess(?) organic posphates would be removed by a skimmer?

[Bluecheese]

Since we have so many experts on the algae issue on this thread I was wondering what was the take on bubble algae. What works best to control it?--Tangs? Crabs?...?
It's coming out everywhere in my tank since I added a new piece of LR from another tank. It looks pretty right now but I dread the consequences if I let this go too far.

[SAT]

Originally posted by yardboy
Further clarification, as far as I know, any posphate test that doesn't have some sort of acid digestion is not going to measure organic posphates either, so that eliminates any "dip-stick" method. I guess(?) organic posphates would be removed by a skimmer?

The Hach model PO-24 kit uses ascorbic acid digestion to read "total phosphate" (ortho-, meta- and organic). I got a quote for $125 on their web site. I've never used it, but I believe it employs the same color wheel mechanism as the PO-19, which works pretty well.

Skimming will remove a good percentage of inorganic phosphate and polar organic forms. Activated carbon will remove both polar and non-polar organics. Spotte reports a study where a high percentage of phosphate was removed by an ordinary air stone. Apparently a lot of the phosphate stuck to the bubbles and was thrown into the air when the bubbles burst. Presumably a skimmer would work even better.

[SAT]

Originally posted by Bluecheese
Since we have so many experts on the algae issue on this thread I was wondering what was the take on bubble algae. What works best to control it?--Tangs? Crabs?...?

If you search for Valonia you'll find a bunch of threads. Emerald crabs (Mithrax) are commonly recommended and many people have reported success. Note, however, that at least some flavors of Mithrax grow quite large and are not purely herbivorous.

[Bluecheese]

Valonia!!!!

That's what I needed to know.

thanks!

[OUinLA]

I just had a huge outbreak. cyano or algae, bubbles trapped everywhere, on the sand rock and glass. I have had the tank for 6 years and I haven't added anything in a few weeks. Tomorrow I am testing both waters I had put in RO from the lfs and then sea water from the other lfs. I know the sea water had nitrates and phosphates so I switched to the RO. All of a sudden I have bubbles everywhere!!! and lots of brown hair algae on the glass.

I added a bunch of hermits and for one day the problem went away but came back the next in full force. Now the hermits just knock over my corals, their about to find a new home.

[electrinite]

Hi there!!!

I have a 12 gallon reef tank that has a bad algae problem. I wanted to knoe if anyont has a cure for hair algae. it seems that everytime I pull it off of the rocks, it is already grown back the next day. It has been going on forever. Even doing weekly water changes doesn't seem to phase it. And if I low my lighting time it doesn't really make a big difference. Someone please help!!! The Hair Algae is Taking over, Soon it will be all over my apartment and maybe even growing on me!!! I have tried snails, emerald crabs, pgymy angels(which like the corals better than the algae), sally lightfoots. I am out of ideas. SOS!!!

Thank You!!

[kmk2307]

Hey electrinite,

[welcome]

Phosphates and nitrates are the primary "food" molecules for algae. Do you test for these? My guess is that you have elevated phosphates. Do you use RO or other purified water to mix your saltwater with? Growing macroalgae like caulerpa, doing water changes with RO water, and using phosphate and / or nitrate removing products can help keep hair algae out of your tank.

You might want to check out this thread:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=147010

HTH,
Kevin

[Pierre-Michel]

Hi guys ! To my knowledge cyano is not an algea but a bacteria ... thi is what I was told ! I had it everywhere so a guy told me to use EMT tablets like one for 20 gal and in 2 days the thing dissapeared and never came back... that was 6 months ago so for what it,s worth ....
It did not affect other living things in the aquarium

[cwschoon]

You need to change lights too! Diminished spectrum favors cyano. EM tablets work but beware of fixing the symptom and not the cause.

[Bluecheese]

Yes it is a cyano (Red)-bacteria. As an alternative to tablets when I got my outbreak, I just changed the flow in my tank and directed powerjets directly toward the infected areas. Cyano went slowly away without coming back. This was recommended to me by other reefers who do not like to put chemical in their tanks.

[finding nemo]

I am having allot of trouble with it to. Don't know why, lots of water changes trying to get rid of it, I squirt it with a turkey baster and grab what I can with the net. Then withing 3 hours the sand and rocks are covered in it again. Ugly stuff.