Noobs!!

[dcombs44]

Originally posted by aznlmpulse
Not to start an argument, but I think it's quite comical that you guys have 2-4 yrs of reef experience (regardless of posting 10 times/day every single day for the last 3-4 years), and call it knowledge. I have 5+ years under my belt, and I wouldn't ever have the gall to start a thread like this one.

I do agree with oct2274 that there are certifiable noobs hiding behind the "10+ years" badge here.

This forum, or any forum for that matter will never be able to regulate the type of advice that its members have to offer one another. While it's a good idea to encourage prudent, worth-while advice giving only, there will always be people (such as yourselves) that stand tall on their "2000+ posts" soapbox (regardless of actual experience or success in the hobby) and only add to the growing problem.

I don't think any one of us ever bosted having a wealth of knowledge. I was just mentioning the statements made that most people with a fair amount of experience would be able to point out as wrong. I still ask questions here every day, and would never consider myself a pro.

I do know 1000 times more than I did when I started, but I still have yet to scratch the surface of the information out there. I really don't understand why people can't discuss something without other people trying to read into the point behind it and make comments that don't need to be made like the one about "people like us" standing on their soapbox. Nobody in this thread has that mentality in the least.

DC:
I agree that my idea wouldn't be at all feasible, just the only legit method that I could come up with.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by aznlmpulse
Not to start an argument, but I think it's quite comical that you guys have 2-4 yrs of reef experience (regardless of posting 10 times/day every single day for the last 3-4 years), and call it knowledge. I have 5+ years under my belt, and I wouldn't ever have the gall to start a thread like this one.

I do agree with oct2274 that there are certifiable noobs hiding behind the "10+ years" badge here.

This forum, or any forum for that matter will never be able to regulate the type of advice that its members have to offer one another. While it's a good idea to encourage prudent, worth-while advice giving only, there will always be people (such as yourselves) that stand tall on their "2000+ posts" soapbox (regardless of actual experience or success in the hobby) and only add to the growing problem.

I'm sorry that you feel that way. I never came in here and called myself an expert because of my post count. If anything, it proves that I have a lot of extra time. But then again, what does a limited amount of years experience with hand on stuff have to do with knowledge? There are many ways to be knowledgable without actually having to have a reef tank at all. Heck, take LeslieH, our resident worm wrangler, for example. Been here since '04, about 1500 posts, and doesn't even have a fish tank (unless she started one up recently), yet she is quite the worm authority. Of course, it doesn't help if you head the Polychaete worm section of the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles All I'm trying to say is yes, it doesn't matter how many posts you have. I can agree with you there, but assuming someone is or isn't knowledgable depending on post count, time on the board, or time with an aquarium is just about absurd. Let their actions and words speak for themselves, and pray that the person getting the advice is willing to do some independent research on the person, advice, and alternative options.

[mbbuna]

i dont think a rating system would work nor appointing "someone in the know" as a local guru. something similar was brought up by team rc a month ago or so http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1125682

it really is the responsibility of the original poster to sift through the info given, do a little of there own research to find the right answer. its also very easy to search someone post history to find out what quality of info they typically give.

[lubricus]

Originally posted by aznlmpulse
Not to start an argument, but I think it's quite comical that you guys have 2-4 yrs of reef experience (regardless of posting 10 times/day every single day for the last 3-4 years), and call it knowledge. I have 5+ years under my belt, and I wouldn't ever have the gall to start a thread like this one.

I do agree with oct2274 that there are certifiable noobs hiding behind the "10+ years" badge here.

This forum, or any forum for that matter will never be able to regulate the type of advice that its members have to offer one another. While it's a good idea to encourage prudent, worth-while advice giving only, there will always be people (such as yourselves) that stand tall on their "2000+ posts" soapbox (regardless of actual experience or success in the hobby) and only add to the growing problem.

It sure sounds like your trying to start something to me!

[SDguy]

Originally posted by aznlmpulse
Not to start an argument, but I think it's quite comical that you guys have 2-4 yrs of reef experience (regardless of posting 10 times/day every single day for the last 3-4 years), and call it knowledge. I have 5+ years under my belt, and I wouldn't ever have the gall to start a thread like this one.

I do agree with oct2274 that there are certifiable noobs hiding behind the "10+ years" badge here.

This forum, or any forum for that matter will never be able to regulate the type of advice that its members have to offer one another. While it's a good idea to encourage prudent, worth-while advice giving only, there will always be people (such as yourselves) that stand tall on their "2000+ posts" soapbox (regardless of actual experience or success in the hobby) and only add to the growing problem.

A. I don't think anyone on this thread claimed to be an expert in anything, due to post count, or experience, or any other reason.

B. I don't think anyone accused you of giving out bad info, so why the 'tude?

C. If you have to start a post with "Not to start an argument, but..." you are trying to start an argument, IMO.

[1F2FRFBF]

Taking advice from anyone you don't know is one of those "buyer beware" things. But I think you can pretty much tell if someone's full of it or not.

"Bad" can also be subjective. For example, if you're a tech junkie, you're going to find it hard to imagine how anyone could get along without the latest gadget. If you like the bare-bones approach, you're probably going to see no value whatsoever in having any gadgets whatsoever.

The nice thing about the forum is that if you see what you think might be bad advice, you are perfectly welcome to counter that with your own opinion and then the readers will have a couple different viewpoints to consider and do further research on. And hopefully you go about your business in a polite, civil manner.

But IMHO almost every post can be valuable in some way, because they can not only teach us what TO do, they can also teach us what NOT to do.

[Peter Eichler]

Back in the days of Fishnet and Aqualink it seemed that when someone posted incorrect info they got called on it. It was not overly polite when it happened, but it was usually enough to let the person know that they better know their stuff if they're going to be handing out advice but not to the point of being rude. It's a fine line, but I don't think it's ok to allow people that don't know what they're talking about to go around posting bad info.

If some of these "noobs" were a little better with presenting things as the opinion of someone without a lot of experience it wouldn't be an issue. But I see too many posts where the bad info is presented as if it's fact rather than a shot in the dark from someone that thinks they might know something.

[dcombs44]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Back in the days of Fishnet and Aqualink it seemed that when someone posted incorrect info they got called on it. It was not overly polite when it happened, but it was usually enough to let the person know that they better know their stuff if they're going to be handing out advice but not to the point of being rude. It's a fine line, but I don't think it's ok to allow people that don't know what they're talking about to go around posting bad info.

If some of these "noobs" were a little better with presenting things as the opinion of someone without a lot of experience it wouldn't be an issue. But I see too many posts where the bad info is presented as if it's fact rather than a shot in the dark from someone that thinks they might know something.

That was the exact point of my thread. Not to state that I know everything, but to state that there are some things that most people here do know, and some BRAND new people state the opposite like they know it's a fact, and not just an opinion or a possible answer to a question. I make a point that if I don't know an answer for sure to tell the poster that asked the question to wait for more answers and compare. Thanks Peter!

[mildew]

As a relative noob, and trying to do things right, doesn't this thread perhaps belong in the Feedback and Questions Forum which is more of a housekeeping forum - this being a housekeeping topic? I've been into reefkeeping just 2 years, and I've answered some questions from other noobs when I've had experience that I thought might prove helpful. I don't think I've ever slammed some one but have read slams against some of those now missing names. I really do miss some of those people. They were people with knowledge and experience and a research base and their absence has weakened RC. When I am looking for help and ask a question I generally look at the number of posts by the individual posting and their hobby experience fully realizing that 10 years of the same experience is not 10 years of experience. I just wish some of noobs asking questions would take their time to look through the forums for an answer before asking, and I wish that the people responding with "I don't happen to know anything about this but I'm sorry about your "situation" wouldn't. Please forgive me for stepping into this discussion.

[Grins]

I'm a salt water newbie but not new to forums and how they work. In my opinion the best recourse is simply to have active participation by members so that people with questions can sort through advice and make a decision on which way to go.

If you see me giving out advice you don't agree with by all means add your own two cents in. I've learned a lot since I first started this hobby 3 months ago but with every bit I learn I discover how much I don't know. Isn't that true with anything?

Frankly anyone that is in this hobby should have more than one resource and if they are leaping to take the first bit of advice they get on anything they have a bigger issue to address.

[REV]

Interesting. I have nothing to add, just trying to boost my post count so I won't look like a noob!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Now that's funny I don't care who ya are!

[dcombs44]

Originally posted by mildew
As a relative noob, and trying to do things right, doesn't this thread perhaps belong in the Feedback and Questions Forum which is more of a housekeeping forum - this being a housekeeping topic? I've been into reefkeeping just 2 years, and I've answered some questions from other noobs when I've had experience that I thought might prove helpful. I don't think I've ever slammed some one but have read slams against some of those now missing names. I really do miss some of those people. They were people with knowledge and experience and a research base and their absence has weakened RC. When I am looking for help and ask a question I generally look at the number of posts by the individual posting and their hobby experience fully realizing that 10 years of the same experience is not 10 years of experience. I just wish some of noobs asking questions would take their time to look through the forums for an answer before asking, and I wish that the people responding with "I don't happen to know anything about this but I'm sorry about your "situation" wouldn't. Please forgive me for stepping into this discussion.

There is a forum moderator involved in this forum. I was assuming more people would see the thread here as it is the most viewed forum on the site. I suppose if it needed to be moved, the mod would move it.

I guess I don't see your point about people sympathizing with others over problems either. People that aren't involved in the hobby probably wouldn't care that my $50 fish just died, they just think I'm stupid for spending $50 on a fish; whereas, you can come here and people relate to you. Even if they can't help they're there to say, hey we've been there too, we know how it feels, and good luck. I can understand where it does congest things a bit, but it's still good to know that other people genuinely care.

[dc]

Originally posted by SDguy
I would just like to add, that when someone does get corrected for giving wrong info, it should be politely done. No need to chastise the person...a simple correction will do, IMO.

*AHEM*

[MrSpiffy]

Originally posted by REV
Interesting. I have nothing to add, just trying to boost my post count so I won't look like a noob!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Now that's funny I don't care who ya are!

LOL!

"Lord, I apologize fer that one there... and please be with all the starving Pygmies down there in New Guinea."


Getting back on topic... I've been watching this thread so far, and I have to agree on several points.

1. Post counts don't mean jack. If someone's got 10 years under their belt, but have been doing things exactly the same way for 10 years, that doesn't count as 10 years' experience to me. And people with low post counts may have some very good advice to give. Listen to people. Do some research. And make the best decision you can from what you have.

2. There's no need to be rude or mean when rebutting poor information or incorrect opinions. But this needs to be done! Without differing opinions, there wouldn't be any discussion! Discussion is good! Flamewars are not...

3. It's good to add your opinion to a discussion. After all, it's an opinion. They're allowed! But if you're unsure about your information, do NOT portray it as fact. I try very hard to let people know if it's something I've simply heard from others and haven't tried yet. If I'm not sure about something, I say so. People need to be aware that the information they receive may not be 100% valid.

4. I've seen no one on their soapbox here, except for a certain someone who didn't "want to start an argument". If there's one thing I've learned from life, not just RC, it's this: Don't point fingers at other people unless you can prove you're right. Jumping to conclusions or pointing fingers over debatable information never got anyone anywhere good. Take in all the feedback and make a relatively informed, educated decision as to how to proceed. But, (and I can't stress this enough...) DON'T POINT FINGERS! We've all made mistakes. Correct me if I give bad advice. But don't crush me cause I'm a n00b. People don't take kindly to that sort of treatment. I suppose this reiterates point #2, but still...

*WHEW!* Okay, I'm done now... This n00b is finished ranting. Please... continue the discussion!

[SDguy]

Originally posted by dc
*AHEM*

[dc]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Back in the days of Fishnet and Aqualink it seemed that when someone posted incorrect info they got called on it. It was not overly polite when it happened, but it was usually enough to let the person know that they better know their stuff if they're going to be handing out advice but not to the point of being rude. It's a fine line, but I don't think it's ok to allow people that don't know what they're talking about to go around posting bad info.

If some of these "noobs" were a little better with presenting things as the opinion of someone without a lot of experience it wouldn't be an issue. But I see too many posts where the bad info is presented as if it's fact rather than a shot in the dark from someone that thinks they might know something.

And everyone got ticked off and left. I'm not sure that did AL any favors. I can say that as a long time mod there and very short term admin.

[dcombs44]

Originally posted by dc
*AHEM*

May I ask if that "AHEM" was directed at me?

[dc]

Originally posted by SDguy

I wondered if you would think that was directed towards you. It's not. Your advice just bared repeating. The same thought should be carried over to this thread. Everyone should be able to take an opinion without getting so defensive. I see this thread getting closed if not.

[dc]

Originally posted by dcombs44
May I ask if that "AHEM" was directed at me?

Not specifically no.

[Travis L. Stevens]

DON'T POINT FINGERS! We've all made mistakes. Correct me if I give bad advice. But don't crush me cause I'm a n00b. People don't take kindly to that sort of treatment.

You also make an underlying, valid point to. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, needs to be politely corrected if they have given bad information. Even people that have been around for 10+ years, people that have 10,000 posts, and even people that have neither but might be considered high ranking, if you will, as long as you can back up your claim with prominent information. Humans are little learning machines, and people that have been around the block a few times are also still learning and it might be harder for them to find "new" information. If you can prove that person wrong, it's a benefit for both sides; the person who's been around a while learns something new, and the new person has helped someone out (whether it is the "oldbie" or the person asking the question).

[dc]

There is a forum moderator involved in this forum. I was assuming more people would see the thread here as it is the most viewed forum on the site. I suppose if it needed to be moved, the mod would move it.

I have never clicked on that.

I've thought about moving it actually, just haven't made up my mind.

[dcombs44]

Originally posted by Travis L. Stevens
You also make an underlying, valid point to. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, needs to be politely corrected if they have given bad information. Even people that have been around for 10+ years, people that have 10,000 posts, and even people that have neither but might be considered high ranking, if you will, as long as you can back up your claim with prominent information. Humans are little learning machines, and people that have been around the block a few times are also still learning and it might be harder for them to find "new" information. If you can prove that person wrong, it's a benefit for both sides; the person who's been around a while learns something new, and the new person has helped someone out (whether it is the "oldbie" or the person asking the question).

Good point. This may be a bit of a tangent, but I think it still relates to the discussion. I was reading through a thread the other day started by PaulB (has had the same reef tank running for 35 years). He was discussing the fact that you don't have to spend much money to be successful. He explained that you don't need this and you don't need that, and he was flamed from all directions shortly after. Paul being the mild mannered guy that he seems to be, took it with a grain of salt, but stuff like that could cause some other members to leave the forum. The thing is, many of the people doing the slamming/contradicting were people that hadn't been members for very long, and therefore, didn't realize the contributions that PaulB has made to this hobby. I just find it sad to see things like that happen here.

[dcombs44]

Originally posted by dc
There is a forum moderator involved in this forum. I was assuming more people would see the thread here as it is the most viewed forum on the site. I suppose if it needed to be moved, the mod would move it.

I have never clicked on that.

I've thought about moving it actually, just haven't made up my mind.

I see how it is Pick on the guy that starts the controversial thread.

[dc]

Originally posted by dcombs44
I see how it is Pick on the guy that starts the controversial thread.

I'm still waiting for everyone to apply all the good advice given to this thread.

[Travis L. Stevens]

The thing is, many of the people doing the slamming/contradicting were people that hadn't been members for very long, and therefore, didn't realize the contributions that PaulB has made to this hobby. I just find it sad to see things like that happen here.

Not to pick on you directly dcombs, but that goes back to what I was saying to aznimpulse. Just because of post count or time with RC or a tank, doesn't necessarily reflect their knowledge. On the other hand, it may have needed to be said nicer though.