DIY Coil De-nitrator

[jtesdall]

Has anyone built and used one? It sounds like they will work very well if designed correctly. Overanalyzer, i think I saw posts from you where you built one. Does it work?

[overanalyzer]

I was looking at building one - but never got around to it - I have a perfect container for it - but never did do it. If you do decide to build it let me know and maybe we can get a huge order of coiled tubing together and split it.....

[jtesdall]

I think I am definately going to build one this weekend. I have the 3" and 4" PVC and bioballs. I have about 50 foot of 1/4 (.170 ID) black tubing. I want three coils so I need to buy 100 more feet. Lowes has it for either .10 or .08 a foot I forget. Then I need the Jaco fittings to make it look nice.

I will be going to Lowes on Saturday to get the rest if interested in getting more tubing. Or I can just report back to you. I won't be back in Des Moines (Clive) until Monday. I am here today and tomorrow though.

But had anyone around here actually tested these things? Sounds awesome if they work. Put in 20 nitrate water and get out 0 at about 8 gallons an hour would be great!

[overanalyzer]

I've read a lot of good things about it - but the key is getting everything balanced right - I have a bunch of bioballs I picked up - take a bunch of pictures as you build it!

If the tubing is that cheap - then no worries - I have a four foot tall PVC container that has 3 inch screw in openings I was going to use for mine....

[jtesdall]

Did you read the complete DIY thread on building them? It stated over and over not to over build, bigger is not better. Maybe you were going to cut down that 4 foot peice. But it sounds like (if your RC signature is still correct) you have a 12 G nano and 2-24 gallon tanks with small loads, you would only need a very small chamber. I would think a 12" or 18 " x 2" PVC with one 50 foot coil would do the trick. But hence, I haven't even built one. But I have read all six pages of that thread twice now and read other articles and plans on the net. ;0) So I guess I know it all now .... LOL.

I am planning on a 22"x3" PVC with three 50 foot coils on the outside. It sounded like this should have an output of about 8 gal/ hr (192 g/day). I have about exactly that in my system. So it would turn over the water once a day. It was actually stated at 2-8 Gal/hr per coil, so maybe I can get more. Hopefully over the course of a week I could really drive the nitrates down.

[overanalyzer]

yeah I was planning a much larger tank - so the bigger piece (it is a tank really) was either going to be a coil denitrator or a some sort of reactor ..... now I'd build a much smaller one - but might still build a monster if I get a monster tank ....

[kau_cinta_ku]

i built one 3 weeks ago. but it is still cycling so no improvements as of yet. and i did over build mine but was told it will still work correctly just take longer to cycle.

[jtesdall]

Originally posted by kau_cinta_ku
i built one 3 weeks ago. but it is still cycling so no improvements as of yet. and i did over build mine but was told it will still work correctly just take longer to cycle.

Are you testing the output now after three weeks?? What are the input nitrate and nitrite if so after three weeks?

I saw you posted on the same thread, I had forgotten there were two Iowans posting on there. What are your tank specs and de-ntrator specs? Any advice or problems you ran into building it?

[kau_cinta_ku]

i am testing once a week, but still no changes.
Tank specs
ammonia - 0
nitrites - 0
nitrates - 30ppm

from output of denitrator
ammonia - 0
nitites - 0
nitrates - 30ppm

the denitrator is 30" tall, 4" pvc tubing, 100' of 1/4" .180 ID, filled completly with bioballs.

they are actually very easy to build but sence my tank is only a 75 gal. with 30 gal. sump/fuge 100 gal. total I am thinking to build a smaller one like I was told in that thread using 2" pvc 18" tall and 50' of tubing and just try that along with this one if you need help on parts or such let me know and I will help where i can. but they did say it will take 1 - 1.5 monthes to cycle so just a waiting game now.

[musty baby]

I built one but it hasn't gotten hooked up to anything yet.

We did see one in action in Chicago on MWP's tank (breeds onyx percs, if you ever venture into the breeding forum) and he had his homemade setup going on a 24 gallon nano that was LOADED full of fish and softies. It was kind of ridiculous, but he wasn't having nitrate problems. I'm not sure of the specs of his, think it was 1 layer of 1/4" tubing 2-2.5 feet long on 2" pvc, but that's just a guess from memory. He had it putting out just a drop or two a second, as I recall.

[jtesdall]

Ya, the reports seem to be that they work but you have to kep an eye on them. If you have the flow going too slow it can create Hydrogen Sulfide and too slow will create nitrites. Both scenarios make sense and once you have the flow figured out they are supposed to run for years without any maintenance. I am excited to build one this weekend.

I assume you meant 2-2.5 foot of 2" PVC and not of 1/4 tubing. 2.5 feet wouldn't be nearly long enough for the aerobic bacteria to consume the oxygen from what I have read. The suggested length is 50-75 feet for 1/4".

[jtesdall]

OK, mine has been cycling for a week. 25" x 3" PVC w/ 3-50'x1/4"(.170id) filled with BioBalls. I will report back as soon as I get positive (or negative ;0() readings.

kau_cinta_ku are you getting any positive results after 5 weeks?

Ryan, have you hooked up yours yet?

I see in my post above I have a typo - too slow can create hydrogen sulfide (I think the flow has to be almost nil) and too FAST can run out nitrites. The logic behind these scenarios make sense based on the nitrogen cycle and the aerobic and anaerobic bacteria involved. It is really an amazing and logical concept if it works.

[musty baby]

What I meant was 1/4" tubing wrapped around 2-2.5 feet of pvc. I'm not sure exactly how many feet that works out to of the tubing, from memory of how many feet we put on ours it would work out to around 50 ft.

Not planning on hooking the one I made up (not mine)

[waverz]

how about a DIY water change? works for me

[kau_cinta_ku]

i just tested mine again and still nothing. 0 nitrites 0 ammonia, and still 40ppm nitrates. i am tempted to make it smaller as suggested and leave this one going just to see if it does take off as that would be 5 weeks down the drain for nothing

[Dave Dunbar]

Hello All
New to the forum... Most of what I've read on RC and other forum's is that to cycle a Nitrate reactor you need a carbon source for it to feed on to get started. I made a small version
(4" pvc and 50' for 1/4 ait line and filled with bioballs) let it run with 2 drops per sec and waited and waited nothing happened.
Just seemed the water was just flowing in and out. Then I saw a post about "High Nitrates" and it was pointed out to get the right kind of bacteria growing you need a carbon source. All store bought reactoers need to be "Feed" or use some kind of bactor balls that comtain carbon. The easy way to do this is to dose
"VODKA" I know it sounds strange but it works. Only takes a very small amount once a day and it will get the cycle started in about 2 weeks. ( I have a 120 heavy stocked reef tank with nitrates that would run in the 60ppm and changed tons and I mean tons of water and didnt help. Started the Vodka Drip and with in a month the nitrates went down about 10 ppm per month. The only problem it has if you dose too long it makes your tank almost look sterile. And take awhile to get off with out problems.
I tried to hurry up the process by dosing for 3 months and it cleaned the tank up so much that even mushsrooms didnt like it.
So maybe if you just dosed until you see a change from the water going in to the water going out you might be OK. I'm sure if you do a search on RC the post might come up.
Hope this helps
Peace
Dave

[jtesdall]

Originally posted by waverz
how about a DIY water change? works for me

Great idea, wish I would have thought of that! JK Water changes are EXPENSIVE with a heavily stocked system. Especially now that I have hooked an aggressive tank to my system. Dang puffer tears krill up and makes a snow storm in my tank. I have created this issue and yes I should probably disconnect the aggressive from my reef system. But if I can get a coil de-nitrator to work and can save on salt and maintain my centralized system that is what I want. I know others have gotten this to work.

Dave, I believe the carbon source is to feed the anaerobic bacteria, nitrates should do this. The posts on RC claim you don't need to feed this system and really it does make sense. I am just wondering if with a 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrite system if the aerobic bacteria have the food they need to remove the oxygen from the water before it enters the anaerobic zone (without oxygen) otherwise the thing won't work.

Also, yes there are many posts on RC about Vodka and sugar use. And in Europe it is a highly used method and seems to be safe. There are just many cautions on using these methods, whether founded or not. One of the posters in this thread turned me on to the use of Vodka and sugar earlier this year. I tried it, but I just got drunk and fat. Sugar seems to be a good alternative, but I worry about the long term effects and hope that the de-nitrator will step up to the plate.

[jtesdall]

Oh, and another thing ..... water changes are notorius for not being able to keep up with a heavily stocked system like mine. And really mine isn't all that heavily sticked except for the aggressives (Lion, Eel, Puffer).

I also dose sugar now and it works. But I do not dose much because of fear. So my nitrates are still about 20-30.

[tibbs2]

Pouring vodka into a tank seems like such a waste.

[jtesdall]

Yes it does, sugar seems to be a good and cheaper alternative. I am still scared of it though. Although I just put some more in this morning.

[einsteins]

I tried sugar for a short period and my two tangs got fin rot at exactly the same period. It also stopped when I ended the sugar....

ein

[jtesdall]

Originally posted by einsteins
I tried sugar for a short period and my two tangs got fin rot at exactly the same period. It also stopped when I ended the sugar....

ein

Hmmmm .... that is very interesting. Anyone have any logical reasons why sugar might cause this. I have been dosing sugar for some time now and all fish are very healthy and no fin rot or anything else. I do very small doses however.

P.S. I am not supporting the use of sugar long term, but it appears to be a viable bandaid for a short period. I am obviously hoping the de-nitrator will help with my solution long term. I am also increasing water volume by about 50% (while maintaining the same load), adding another 5" DSB to my new 90 and increasing my refugium/sump size by about 2x. Hopefully these will all work together and solve my issues. I have also increased skimming by adding a second skimmer.

[fishquaria]

One tip. Instead of using one long piece of tubing, use several moderately long pieces. This prevents water from stagnating, thus preventing Hydrogen Sulphide build up. Plus, you maybe able to increase the throughput of the thing.

[jtesdall]

That is exactly the design and reasoning I used after research. I have 3-50'x1/4" coils. Hopefully this will increase throughput.

Fishaquaria, have you built one of these successfully?

[fishquaria]

No, but have drawn up many plans and have gone part way through building one, before I realized that I won't be getting my tank with a sump for a long time. And slow pumps are a bit hard to come by where I am. If you have sump, you can use a simple siphon to draw water from the tank and have the outlet in the sump. All the best, tell me how it goes.