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  #101  
Old 12/15/2007, 11:37 PM
luke33 luke33 is offline
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Its called a recirc with a hot attachment to it and the output above the tank......think about it.
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  #102  
Old 12/16/2007, 02:26 AM
happyface888 happyface888 is offline
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That ones not a recirc though I went to the homepage and its powered by a aquabee pump. Hmm found a pretty cool looking DIY but it seems alittle extreme. But cool though

Quote:
Originally posted by metalManiac
the pump is a hailea (basicallyOR ripoff), they are made by the same factory that makes ocean runners.

The pump is only around 300gph. The ball valve is not being restricted at the moment, im just adjusting the air intake via a needle valve.

There is no way the air can be left wide open, it cavitates at a point much sooner than the point at which the air valve would be left wide open.

BTW i made a deltec mce600 ripoff, could the fact that the pump must draw water through pvc (and hence the difficulty of getting water to the pump) be causing the premature cavitation?

heres a pic of the skimmer (note the ball valve and air intake right after it).




closeup of the pump and the way its plumbed.
Its missing a venturi airline though and heres the thread for more info on it, might help with the ideas
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...ang+on+skimmer

Hahns skimmer design sketch

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...ang+on+skimmer

Last edited by happyface888; 12/16/2007 at 02:34 AM.
  #103  
Old 12/16/2007, 09:43 AM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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I like the tube idea, but I can't go 6" w/ it. I'd have to manually force it behind my tank and I don't want to take the chance of breaking anything.

I probably started by way over thinking this. Here's a very simplified idea. The whole skimmer is 12x5x24. The recirc pump would be put into place just like the Octo100F's pump, just screwed into place through a hole in the chamber. The input for the recirc would obviously be on the return side w/ a venturi. The input from the feed pump would probably come through the front of the chamber just like the return pipe instead of the way I have it. The return pipe would have to be slightly higher than the input to allow the water level to be higher than the input pipe. That way the collection cup could be adjusted up and down w/ out hitting the inlet pipe. Happy, is there a way you could check your old bakpak for the difference between outlet and inlet? The bottom of the reaction chamber would have some type of bubble plate or whatever to try and minimize the micros returning. This way I have access to the recirc pump and don't have to worry about it leaking. Now if I can find a feed pump that's smaller but does an awesome job at pulling air, I'll just put that in my pre-skimmer box and be done w/ it! Seems a lot easier than everything we've been trying so far...less acrylic work etc. Now let me know what you think:

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Last edited by dzeadow; 12/16/2007 at 10:01 AM.
  #104  
Old 12/16/2007, 10:54 AM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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I don't think that even doing something like this would be that difficult. The inlet pipe would have to be free and go up and over the top of the skimmer, but it'd still allow easy access to the pumps... what do you think about this one:

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  #105  
Old 12/16/2007, 11:01 AM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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The second design would allow me to use/make good venturis and also use bigger pumps. Both boxes in there right now represent the size of the Sedra 3500.. so two of those would fit in there.
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  #106  
Old 12/16/2007, 12:14 PM
jman77 jman77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by happyface888
A tube would be less work but how would you design it? I've only seen a few hobs that are actually tubes. If you can make something like this it would be sweet.



This new developed protein-skimmer works with a new principle. The bubble-air-emulsion flows down between an outer and an inner tube. The bubbles rises up in the inner tube and form foam. The turbulent flow between the tubes and the not turbulent flow in the inner tube leads to a very high efficiency at small dimensions.

The protein skimmer can be used for tanks up to 1000 liter.

We deliver the Cyclon AS with the pump Aquabee 2000/1 (2000L/h, 3 Meter , 34 Watt)
The compact dimensions permit a flexible installation:

The Cyclon AS features a carrier, so that it can be fixed to one side of the tank.

Through the pivoted outlet the protein skimmer can be fixed outside the tank or inside the floor-unit-tank.

Dimensions incl. tubes: (BxHxT) ca. (200mm x 385mm x 280mm)

The protein-skimmer is easy to clean, because it can be disassembled in it?Ls components.

Der Cyclon AS is easy to install and to adjust (ball-walve at outlet).

http://www.underwater-shop.com/produ...roducts_id=321

Interesting that they state this "This new developed protein-skimmer works with a new principle. "

If I haven't misunderstood what they are saying , SeaClones have been using "principle" for a while already.

They charge 298.00EUR for this tiny thing...look at the seams and the size of the airline feeding this thing... lol no thanks.

Sorry , just had to vent about mini-me
  #107  
Old 12/16/2007, 07:54 PM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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Hey Luke, do you think I should still use that Odyssea WP500 for the recirc if I do the version above? The pump is actually a little narrower and shorter than the Sedra but is a 1/2" longer.. I think it'll fit nicely in there and for $30, I don't know if I'll find another 500 gph pump that will pull decent air.
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  #108  
Old 12/16/2007, 09:37 PM
luke33 luke33 is offline
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Its up to you man. Its a cheap pump that will work just fine. If you run it unrestricted i think fully modded it'll do around 15-20scfh no problem. It would pull 12-15 scfh with an elbo.
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  #109  
Old 12/16/2007, 10:02 PM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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I won't need an elbow w/ the way I redrew it will I? The only thing I can think would be a problem at this point is pressure. As was noticed w/ the Resun pump, the further I pushed it down the bucket, the less air it would pull. And in this case, it's going to be at the bottom of the chamber w/ some water pressure on it. So how do I overcome this? I'd like to use the pump since you say it'll pull decent air and also has a larger gph to it.

I ordered 5 sheets of 12x24 .177 acrylic, 1 11"+ long piece of 3" OD 2.75" ID tube, and 1 11"+ long piece of 4" OD 3.75 ID tube. The project will start if I get the product by the end of the week, if not sometime next week between the holidays.
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  #110  
Old 12/16/2007, 10:11 PM
luke33 luke33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by dzeadow
I don't think that even doing something like this would be that difficult. The inlet pipe would have to be free and go up and over the top of the skimmer, but it'd still allow easy access to the pumps... what do you think about this one:

Well, with this model it looks like your going to have a prob with micro's and i don't like the exit tube. You'll need three sections just like an octo, except it'll be much larger width wise.
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  #111  
Old 12/16/2007, 10:36 PM
jman77 jman77 is offline
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How about one of the Quiet One pumps ?
  #112  
Old 12/17/2007, 12:49 AM
happyface888 happyface888 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by luke33
Well, with this model it looks like your going to have a prob with micro's and i don't like the exit tube. You'll need three sections just like an octo, except it'll be much larger width wise.
I agree with luke, it looks like your going to get micros flying back into the return chamber, unless its big enough where the turbulance won't go knocking the bubbles back down. I kind of don't dig the way those two pumps are put...Why not just put one on the left and one on the right? But I prefer this one though

And seeing your second one you wanted the pump inside why not just do this? I don't know if this will work though but would adding a T connector to the intake pump help start the siphon and a added bonus of it acting like a 2nd reciric? Its just like the octopus but this time around you won't have to do that annoying way of starting a siphon. If you wanted to you could put a cap on the T and make how wide it is for the intake of the water in the first chamber to make the pull for the siphon stronger.

And some info on the reciric with the intake also came from this


The return chamber would be on the left, with baffles. I got this idea by looking at the deltec, it has these little space openings that allow bubbles to rise, and a mix with the cprs bubble trap. Its not scaled out like yours but you probaly can figure a way to make it work. BTW ignore the first pictures baffles, it won't need it since theres the bubble plate box. It prevents the bubbles from going down. The bubble plate will have to be screwed on like the octopus style and the top of the plate should be held down by a nylon screw for easy access if you ever wanted to take the pumps out. The 2nd one well that one does have a problem you can't take the pump out on the return side, and I dont think making a removable baffle would work would it? maybe add a bead of silcone to the sides which allows these baffles to slide in and out of the return chamber. If you plan to do this I'd make it a whole thing kind of like the cprs.

If you stand that thing up right and look to the left you notice a small gap which allows bubbles to rise there in stead of the return outlet.


i'll see if I can get some info on the in and outlet, I don't have it with me know, gave it to a friend. The outlet looks exactly the same as the octopus nothing special just a elbow. While the intakes inlet starts out pretty small than it gets wide, i guess the way the cpr functions is more of a venturi skimmer, since the intake is small there would be more pressure.

Queitone Pumps are nice and cheap, If I remember correctly Luke said they are knock offs of siccee pumps, the QO 2200 pushes 581 GPH. I don't know how big they are and if they draw the most air for its size. I know luke told me the QO1200 which pushes 296gph was the best pump that would draw the most air for its size. And it wasnt that bad looking hanging in the tank when I had it on my typhoon. It was blue . But I prefer the pumps to be hidden instead, I like a clean look.

Or octopus bh300f Knock off, I have no idea how the bh300f works but this would probaly be the killer version, since its running on bigger pumps. Not only that I siphon start up is different so if my idea works you would get dual reciric or atleast I think. Let me know if adding a T actually works, I think it works.


Heres a pic of the skimmer sorry if its not much help but you get a idea of how the tubes are

Last edited by happyface888; 12/17/2007 at 01:25 AM.
  #113  
Old 12/17/2007, 08:58 AM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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Happy, your drawings look good, but since they're not to scale they don't represent the actual space I have to work with. Let me show you what 2 of these sedra pumps look like inside a 12x5x24 box:




As far as starting a siphon w/ a pump inside the skimmer goes, if I put a T at the very top of the pipe where it 90's over the skimmer, and have a twist cap on it, all I'd have to do is pour some water down the pipe until it reaches the top of the T and then cap it off and start the pump, it'd pull the water from the tank like that. Melev did it this way on his closed loop sqwd.

Thanks for the pic of the bakpak, it looks like the difference in height of the bottom of the pipes is somewhere between 1.5-2".
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  #114  
Old 12/17/2007, 09:10 AM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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The quiet one pumps are an option here though since their outlet is on the narrow side of the pump vs the thick side, it'd give more room... I'll try doing something with the QO2200, it's only 3.75 at the outlet side vs. 4.5 of the sedra.
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  #115  
Old 12/17/2007, 09:28 AM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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How's this look?



I'm thinking that making the reaction chamber a seperate "box" and that way I can put my hands in the big box, screw in the pumps to the bubble box, put the bubble plate on w/ some nylon screws or something, and then slide the reaction chamber in and set it w/ a nylon screw or two from the larger box. The only issue I'm concerned w/ at this point is the water pressure reducing the amount of air pulled. Luke, do you know how to rectify this? Would using larger ID airline help? This model is using 2 QO2200's... that's 581 gph per pump... that's a lot. Still gives me 2 return outlets.
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  #116  
Old 12/17/2007, 07:05 PM
happyface888 happyface888 is offline
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I like the design now, but whats that giant block in the center? bubble box?And is two returns realy needed?I also noticed that the 2nd pump is also upside down which is great, that way you get the more space. But you still have to make sure you have enough clearance for the electrical wire to come back up. Mind filling me in where you are seeing the problem with the water pressure and the air draw because I don't see any problems or maybe I'm not catching on. And thanks for the scale model now I'll just use that for my next ideas along the way. Thats not alot of space to play with there. Where do you plan to get the QO pumps?
  #117  
Old 12/17/2007, 07:13 PM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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I don't know where to get the pumps... Even the cheaper ones on ebay have $15-20 shipping making them $40, and most MO places are between $35-45, so plus shipping there all about equal. I might as well go to Petsmart and buy them for somewhere in the $40 range and get them now.

The pressure problem arose when I was testing the Resun in the 5g bucket. The further I pushed it down in the bucket, the less air it drew into the pump because it was having a problem getting air sucked down. So w/ the pumps being at the bottom of the skimmer, I'm not sure if they'll have a problem or not.

The big box in the middle is the bubble box. Are two returns necessary? No, but what to do w/ the extra space? I think there will be BARELY enough space for the power cord to come back up and out of the skimmer.

The thing I like about the QO pumps is that the outlet's are offset, or it looks that way.. that way when they're in the bubble box I don't necessarily have to do anything w/ them so they're not shooting directly at each other, but I may screw a T on there anyway to reduce the turbulence.
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  #118  
Old 12/17/2007, 07:29 PM
happyface888 happyface888 is offline
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Yeah petsmart would be the best place to get them. If they cost more than 42 dollars, I'd go to petsmarts website and print out there ad for the pump. They will honor the price showed on there website for that price instead of the store price. Pets mart prices are above normal but if you have the ad and you show it to the cashier they will sell it to you for that price. 42 dollars the best deal
http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...earch&keepsr=1

How will you deal with the power cord comming back up than? For the air thing, I don't think there would be problems though. I'll let luke chime in on it he probaly knows wheater it does or does not. Yes the QO outlet is offset its not centered, thats why I couldnt toss it on the bh100f.
  #119  
Old 12/17/2007, 08:54 PM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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What do you mean how will I deal with it? I'll just have it wrap the back of the pump and come up and out. Once i seat the pump in the bubble box, there should be more than enough room for it. The pump will just have to be off the bottom a little for the cord to be able to do a 180.. then it'll go between the back of the pump and the wall of the skimmer, up and out. I'll probably have to get extension cords for both pumps since I'll be wasting 2' of cord just coming out of the skimmer.
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  #120  
Old 12/18/2007, 09:56 AM
luke33 luke33 is offline
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All pump's handle depth differently. These qo's don't have a ton of torque imo and this is why they have startup probs. They will pull tons of air but there's the tradeoff, lots of air and startup probs or no start up probs and decent air. I think the pump's will work in 18" water but yes it will have an affect on air pull and wattage. The wattage may be high and the air will be less. The big think i would worry about is turbulence. Your talkin about putting 1200gph in that little guy. Thats a crap ton. I don't think it'll work.
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  #121  
Old 12/18/2007, 10:05 AM
dzeadow dzeadow is offline
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ok, should I drop down to something w/ a 300gph, like the QO1200 or something similar?
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  #122  
Old 12/18/2007, 11:07 AM
koraltek koraltek is offline
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wow, i get slammed with work and you guys have several skimmer designs already!!
im going to give it a shot too and draw something up in google, these are some great ideas everyone's throwing out!

we need the hahnmeister in on this thread too!
  #123  
Old 12/18/2007, 11:29 AM
luke33 luke33 is offline
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If i were to design a skimmer i'd just make it a recirc with the output above the tank, basically it would have a hang on attached to it.
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  #124  
Old 12/18/2007, 11:47 AM
FishAreFriends2 FishAreFriends2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by koraltek
wow, i get slammed with work and you guys have several skimmer designs already!!
im going to give it a shot too and draw something up in google, these are some great ideas everyone's throwing out!

we need the hahnmeister in on this thread too!
Go get him , and yes there certainly is a lot of designs. I wonder which one luke or koral would pick to actually build if they had the materials. Or revise the idea a bit, I'd love to see these designs come to life , If you get the QO1200 they are cheaper at petsmart. 24 dollars each. And If I recall the deltecs mce aquabee is only 300gph also right? so a mesh modded QO1200 will be a monster?
  #125  
Old 12/18/2007, 11:59 AM
FishAreFriends2 FishAreFriends2 is offline
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And it seems this is the only hardcore thread thats pretty much has alot of ideas on hobs designs. I did a search and didn't find anything........
 

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