So you got a new fish tank Newbie - Page 6

Slatts · #**126** 01/30/2004, 12:13 PM

Mr Waterkeeper, all along I thought you were writing this for the love of us newbies only to find your need for a hammerhead. Oh well, send me your address. The education I've received will more than make it up. (how about $150.00 - live rock ain't cheap)
Thanks

WaterKeeper · #**127** 01/31/2004, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slatts
(how about $150.00 - live rock ain't cheap)
Thanks

I know, I know---and to keep that hammerhead I figure I need about 200,000 lbs of it for the tank. Of course, if I also get a really cool Manta birostris I'll need a lot more than that.

John,

Q tells me the portable SCUBA tank is only good for 4 minutes so I'll need something larger for tank cleaning.

thewuf · #**128** 02/02/2004, 01:55 PM

Tom - (or others)

Thanks for your time. I ended up buying the same tank I PM'd you about in 120 gal instead of 150 (4ft vs 5ft) due to where I'm putting it.

Few questions:
1) Would you get a royal blue background or black? It's my choice. Wondered what the general opinion was...

2) I'm reading this thread. I'm studying, I'm following, I'm stuck. You (Tom) mentioned powerheads but never suggested size. So what do you recommend for the 120 gal?

3) I never saw anything about pumps. What size, how many, what gph they should have. Assuming a sump underneath. Again help a boy with a 120 gal.

Thanks again for an awesome thread!

EmmaKB · #**129** 02/02/2004, 09:42 PM

I currently have a FOWLR 105g tank with a 35g sump. It was given to me by a friend (?)

and I've since been scrambling to get every bit of info I can.

My tank seems to be quite stable with the following parameters:
PH: 8.3-8.5
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites:0
Nitrates: 0-10
Sg: 1.022
Temp: 79.9

Known Inhabitants: 1 Hawiian Black Trigger, 1 Lunar Wrasse, 1 Giant Hermit Crab, 1 Emerald Crab, Numerous small hermit crabs, 1 Un-Identified hairy crab.

I am currently trying to increase my coraline algae growth by adding a weekly dose of Calcium and a Buffer to steady the PH.

Questions:
1) Flow rate, how do I calculate this? What would be an appropriate flow rate for a tank this size?
2) Oxygen levels, how do I test for this? How can I improve my Oxygen levels (or decrease them, if that would ever be necessary)?
3) Alkalinity is this something I need to worry about with a FOWLR? How do I test for it? How do I 'control' the level?

Thanks for your input, and for all the detailed info! Great job!

WaterKeeper · #**130** 02/03/2004, 10:56 AM

Hi thewuf

To Reef Central

Both you and Emma have similar questions, well except for the interior decorating thing.

Choose whichever color you like for the background. Black backgrounds do let your fish and coral stand out during photo ops.

79.9 degrees huh Emma? I can see you like to get down to the real nitty gritty.

Circulation is somewhat more important for coral and other inverts than for a FO. The general rule for a true reef is to have a minimum circulation rate of at least 10X the volume of the main tank. In a FO I'd shoot for at least 5X to allow for proper biological filtration. There is nothing wrong with having higher flow rates and may people do.

Power heads can be used on a smaller tank without a sump to provide circulation. In a tank with sump they are used to provide additional circulation for high flow critters and to get water movement in the tank's dead spots. The sizing depends on what critters you keep.

Coralline is not a fast growing algae. Keeping the Calcium and alkalinity at NSW levels. does help promote its growth. If you see it growing on the seams of the tank (it really loves to grow on silicone) then you are in good shape. Emma you do need to worry about alkalinity even in a FO tank. The alkalinity provides buffering that keeps the pH stable. Test kits are usually of the drop titration type. You add an indicator to a tank water sample and add a weak acid drop-wise until the color changes. By counting the number of drops used you can calculate the alkalinity. Here is some stuff from Doc Randy, our chemistry droid on the subject Alkalinity Adjustment

I really don't know of any good oxygen test kits. The reagents used in the "wet" chemistry method are too dangerous for use in home testing. Meters are preferred but prices start around $450. In most cases if you follow the circulation rules I mentioned above you will be OK on oxygen. In a FO, like yours, the fish gulping air at the surface usually indicates a problem.

Here is the RC headloss calculator used to size sump pumps Headloss Calc

And a two part pump article-
Aquarium Water Pumps
Pumps Part 2

That should get you the pump you need.

Oakley · #**131** 02/03/2004, 10:53 PM

Hi WK, great thread, learnt more here that i did in all my years at school

I have a quickie question if you dont mind.
I have just brought a 100g tank with a fluval 404, unfortunatly i neither have the room for a sump,nor will the misses let me buy "another bloody tank" i am looking at keeping just fish and LR and was going to add a powerhead to the setup for more water movement, if i take all the media out of the 404 and just just it to circulate the water along with the powerhead, would this be enough? also would i be able to get by for the next few months without a skimmer? as its gonna take me that long to amount that much hidden money

Thanks in advance

And remember

Stay on target

WaterKeeper · #**132** 02/04/2004, 10:30 AM

Hi Oakley

To Reef Central

First I made a little mistake in the last post. Rex's article on pumps is in three parts so here is the final piece Pumps Part 3

I hope that makes all you Newbies quit squawking about this thread running into its fifth month. Rex took three months just to talk about pumps and I've covered about a dozen topics so far.

Back to your question Oakley,

You pretty much answered it yourself. In the FO tank you are not faced with the problem of uniform circulation throughout the tank as you are with a full blown reef. You also don't need as high a circulation rate. Using the Fluval, sans media, is a good way to provide circulation when you don't have a sump. Later, when you get the Â£, (anyone who uses the word bloody uses pounds

) you can add a hang-on type skimmer that will also provide additional circulation. A powerhead or two hidden behind the rock work may also help.

Good luck getting the gang down at the Pub to donate to your cause.

Oakley · #**133** 02/04/2004, 01:50 PM

Thanks WK

yep you are right its the "bloody Pound" over here

I had to give up smoking to be able to justyfy the spend each week to the misses, ah well gotten over the worse of it now, 3 weeks and counting

Now to my

As myself and my friends were struggling to get the tank into my apartment the top piece of glass (that we had thought was secured) fell and cracked one end of the tank

Gonna have to wait 2 more weeks before the insurance will replace

Can i be cheeky and ask one more question .......?

In England i cannot find anywhere that sells Argonite sand, or if they do, its not on the label, i have tried the vinigar trick and none of the sand fizzes

so my question, would the washed sand that lfs sell be fine for my DSB (its the finest one that they sell) then i would add the LS to the top, does that sound ok? its Â£14 per 25kg think thats about $20 per 50lb?

Thanks again, you make learning fun

shame i didnt have teachers like you when i was in school, i may have enjoyed it then.

Radicaljbr · #**134** 02/04/2004, 03:43 PM

Tom,

Are you getting tired of all these questions? Hope not because I have one more.

You mentioned a long way back in this thread about having a DSB. However, I could not find anything about maintaining it. I have about 4 inches of sand that is somewhere in between sugar and cat litter in size. I have never seen anything "live" in it, but hope to find something in there someday. Even at night with a red lense, i can not find anything moving around.

I also had been reading other threads on DSB and hear they have to be maintained. What do I need to do? I was told not to vacuum it, even though last week I accidently touched the bottom and tons of brown water went in my siphon.

I was thinking of taking about 2 inches off to put in my sump to make a refuge. Would you do this or leave as is and buy more for the fuge?

Is that to many questions in one reply? Sorry if it is!

John

Oakley · #**135** 02/04/2004, 05:15 PM

Here is a picture of my poor tank

WaterKeeper · #**136** 02/04/2004, 07:00 PM

Oh Nooo Oakley!!!

That is one bloody hell of a way for a new bloke to enter this hobby. Cracking the old tank is really a pain in the bum.

Seems we have the ever-popular DSB questions again. The Southdown (now called Old Castle Tropical Play Sand) is kind of a states type thing and I doubt you'll find it on your side of the pond, Oakley. As I said, I prefer aragonite but it is not mandatory. A fine quartz sand will do in a pinch. What you want is a very fine, smaller than granular sugar, type sand. Having a diverse range of sizes is best. Indeed, use it as a base and seed it with as much LS as your budget allows.

If I was a teacher in England the Queen would have had me beheaded by now.

John,

My own feeling is to not to disturb the bed. It takes some time for the various zones in the bed to establish themselves and stirring up the bed disrupts this process.

The brown goop (detritus) is normal in the bed. The bacteria in the bed are constantly feeding on this material and it tends to reach a certain level then stabilize as its consumption matches its production. It is this continuing process of accumulation then breakdown of organic material in the bed that comprises biological filtration.

You may wish to obtain some new LS if you don't see much nighttime activity in the bed. Another option is to buy a detriovore kit. These supply worms, microstarfish and copepods to seed the bed.

When removing sand to seed a new system it is best to take a section all the way to the tank bottom rather than skim off the top layer. The top layer is the most biologically active and the most important part of the bed. Removal of a large portion of the surface may cause some problems in the filtration process. Take a piece of plastic and press it down into the bed to form a partition. Remove the sand on one side of it and replace with the new sand. That new sand will soon become active without disrupting the entire beds biological function. I would try to limit the harvest to no more than about 25-30% of the total bed at any one time. You also want to allow 4-6 weeks before havesting any bed material again.

Radicaljbr · #**137** 02/04/2004, 07:34 PM

Thanks, Tom

You really are a man of knowledge. Sorry, but one more for you. I have looked on the interenet for detriovore kits and had no luck. Do you know a good place to get one?

thanks

John (trying to get out of beginner status) Radcliff

Radicaljbr · #**138** 02/04/2004, 07:47 PM

Oh ya...sorry Tom,

What size sand do you like?

JOhn

ChrisB · #**139** 02/04/2004, 07:54 PM

These two have good packages, but there are more.

Inland Aquatics

IPSF

Radicaljbr · #**140** 02/04/2004, 07:58 PM

Thanks Chris

Oakley · #**141** 02/05/2004, 04:27 AM

Thanks Tom

WaterKeeper · #**142** 02/05/2004, 12:02 PM

John,

You want it pretty fine. Doc Ron, our sand expert, suggests a size range of .05-.20 mm, which is pretty fine stuff. He also says not to wash the sand as it removes valuable fines. Just let the sandstorm abate on its own or at least for a day or so before using something like a polishing filter.

CRITTERS!!!

Giving a description of all the creatures you can add to your tank is beyond the scope of this work. [color=dark green]I always love that line. A nicely worded scholarly cop out.[/color]

As I said earlier, I just haven't had every single organism that people collect in this hobby. To be honest, I've only had a tiny fraction of what is available and that is more toward fish than inverts.

So armed with that knowledge, or lack thereof, I'll talk briefly about stocking for the next few days.

One of the first questions asked by most new reefers is what do I add first---fish or coral? Most people opt for fish thinking they are easier than coral. Nowadays that has pretty much been shown as a myth with many people having great luck with coral tanks but unable to keep fish.

Our coral expert droid, Doc Eric Borneman, suggests that coral should be the first addition to a new tank and, most shockingly, suggests that it be SPS (small polyp stony for those of you that didn't memorize the RC acronym list.

). These are considered the most difficult of the corals to maintain in the reef.

Eric's argument for this outrageous statement makes a lot of sense. Eric feels that many new reefers add "easy" corals like leathers and mushrooms to the new tank. They may also add less than reef friendly fish and mobile inverts. After all these things are established the new reefer then adds the SPS. The somewhat fragile SPS now has to compete against a host of established organisms in a hostile environment. It is doomed, or at least made to fight for its life, by all these competing organisms.

Eric reasons that by starting out with the SPS at the git-go allows it to establish its position in the tank before it needs to compete against other corals, inverts and fish. It also allows you to target feed this coral without other critters grabbing up the meal.

That sounds pretty sensible to me. Let the frail stuff gain a foothold when the tank is new.

One thing about using this plan, most SPS species require high circulation rates and high light levels. Many new reefers don't have the money to provide these items on their new tank and plan on getting them later. If that is the case you don't want to start out with SPS until your equipment is up to handling it. However, if you have the light and pumps, then I'd look closely at Eric suggestions.

I am not going to give out a lot of info on coral in this thread because it is not my specialty. I urge you to go to Eric's The Coral Forum. Be sure to look at the links in that forum for his many articles on coral, posted as a sticky thread. Once you've read everything then pester the heck out of him with a never ending stream of questions, such as, "How do you tell a girl coral from a boy coral?"

The other way people, and I think the most popular, start their new tank is with damsels. Well you do get people like Emma who go for the throat and start out with a Triggerfish that grows to close to 2 feet, eating everything in its path to reach that size.

Not picking on ya Emma. I know you plan on a fish only and if that trigger is really aggressive it will be the only fish.

One of the worst mistakes a Newbie can do is add a fish to cycle you tank! Unfortunately, this is still common practice and Damsels, because of their low price and availability, are often the fish selected for this dubious honor.

Don't even THINK about using a damsel or other fish Newbie to check for WMD's in your tank!!!

Glad I got that out.

If you did think about doing this then go all the way back to the start of this thread and read about the right way to cycle your tank.

Anyway, you go out and buy a very pretty Jewel Damsel, Parapglyphidon lacrymatus, and, if he survives, your ready for other fish. It so happens that old Jewel is too. This is one mean little son of a gun and on the scale of bad acting damsels probably rates a 9. Often Parapglyphidon lacrymatus, after ripping the fins off more expensive fishy, takes the Nemo route to the sea via the commode.

Not all damsels are terrible actors. You need to read up on what their habits are. For instance, the yellow-tailed damsel, Chrysiptera parasema, has a much better temperament than the Jewel. Especially when kept in a small shoal of 4-6 fish, this species of damsels can be kept in a community tank. WaterKeeper has always suspected that keeping any damsel in a shoal makes them better tank mates as they are busier squabbling among themselves than with the tank's other fish.

While not as calm as the yellow-tail the Princess damsel, Pomacentrus vaiuli, is a beautiful fish and is great for a single species small tank where you need small size with brilliant coloration.

Although a cousin, chromis, are far more peaceful than the true damsels. The Green Chromis, Chromis viridis, is commonly kept in schools in the community aquarium. They are best in a school, as they tend to hide if left as a single specimen.

It just so happens that we have an article on Chromis in RK magazine which I'll leave you with Friendly Damsels

Till next time.

Radicaljbr · #**143** 02/05/2004, 12:52 PM

Thanks Tom

franning · #**144** 02/05/2004, 01:50 PM

thank you so much for the wealth of information you just showered us Newbie. I'm still trying to collect all the necessary equipment for my 55 gallon tank. Will revisit this thread over and over to follow all your suggestion.

WaterKeeper · #**145** 02/06/2004, 10:01 AM

Hi Franning
[welcome]

A 55 is a good tank for a damsel school. They are "reef safe" and 5 or 6 will do nicely in that size tank. When placed with some nice corals they are all you need to have a great looking reef.

There is one little drawback with the damsel family. As they age the tend to lose their bright juvenile colors. This may make them less desirable to some reefers. This is true of many fish so you want to purchase as young a specimen as possible.

WaterKeeper · #**146** 02/06/2004, 09:59 PM

One of the other members of the damsel family is the clownfishes which is also a very, very popular group to add to the new aquarium. The new reef keeper is warned that they are damsels and can be very territorial and aggresive.

In this part of the thread I will be constantly referring to articles in RK Magazine written by Heny Schultz. Henry is actually Aquaman in real life and his diet is composed mainly of reef fish, so he knows thier habits intimately.

Since it is the weekend I'll leave you with a ton of reading material.

READ and STUDY it real well Newbies cause there will be a Test on it come Monday!!

Anyway, for the lowdown on clowns I offer Clowning Around

And, since I know you'll want Nemo to have a home whether he needs it or not!
Anemone FAQ
Doc Ron on Anemes
More Doc Ron on Anemes

That should keep you busy till the Pro Bowl

franning · #**147** 02/07/2004, 04:00 AM

haven't thought on what fish to put.. but my daughter wants Nemo in it thou...so guest what I will be having.. Nemo ( aka LUCKY)..

miraotter · #**148** 02/07/2004, 07:11 AM

Hi, I hear this is the place to come if you're a newbie

I'm only a pseudo-newbie. But I still really feel like a newbie...Anyway

I have had my tank for around a year, and because of the fear instilled in me that I will kill things etc there are still very few inhabitants. I just moved into a condo and I am about to (finally) upgrade my lighting. However, because my building is old, I don't have all that many amps and I am forever already blowing fuses when I turn on too many appliances. Will ballasts help alleviate this ? I am still a little baffled at the purpose of a ballast. This may be the only time in my life that I will use the excuse that I'm a girl ; I don't understandthe whole electricity thing

WaterKeeper · #**149** 02/07/2004, 10:30 AM

Hi miraotter,

With lighting the math is fairly simple. Whatever the watts on your lamps ,that is how much juice you need. Ballasts actually make things slightly worse as they, in themselves, draw a couple of watts in addition to the lights. Electronic ballasts are slightly better than the magnetic coil type in this respect of wasting current in the form of heat. Magnetic coil ballasts also use more amps during the start-up than an electronic. MH ballasts need more current than fluorescents during start-up.

The ballast, be it fluorescent or metal halide, serves two purposes. It provides the initial kick to get the bulb to light; this can be around 6 kilovolts for an MH lamp. Next, once the bulb is fired, it limits the amount of current that the lamp can draw. Without the ballast the current going to the lamp would keep increasing till the bulb burned itself up.

One solution amp strapped reefers sometimes use is to find to separate circuits to operate their tanks. This sometimes can allow running higher wattages without needing a new circuit.

WaterKeeper · #**150** 02/07/2004, 10:39 AM

I sure hope you Newbies are studying for that test. I think I'll make it an essay exam.

Even non-reefers can learn stuff from this thread. If they had read the part on repairing a leaking tank where I said that silicone glue wouldn't stick to fully cured silicone; the people gluing Janet J's costume before the Super Bowl could have saved a lot of embarrassment.