cyanobacteria that keeps on growing back, no matter what I do..

paran · #1 05/11/2007, 03:29 PM

Hey guys..

I was wondering if you could help me figure out this problem. I had a cyanobacterial bloom a few weeks ago, and I'm not sure why. I was able to siphon a lot of it off of my rocks and sand, but it keeps on growing back.

Tank Conditions:

55 Gallon Tank (48" x12" x19")
20 gallon water change every week to week and a half
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0
Calcium 400
pH 8.2
Temp 78.5-79.3 (depending on the time of day)
dKH 300

Equipment:
2 10,000k 65watt PC (currently set for 6 hours/day to keep down algae growth)
2 actinic 65watt PC (currently set for 8 hours/day to keep down algae growth)
3 317gph power heads
Coralife Super Skimmer (rated for 65 gallons)
Whisper Power Filter (model 60 rated for 60 gallons)
3 inch deep sand bed
45 lbs. of live rock

All water added to my tank is RO and UV sterilized. Added water gets tested periodically, and is all within normal limits. I only use Instant Ocean marine salt for my salt.

The only supplement I add is Kent Marine Tech-CB (I and II) Ion balanced calcium.

Inhabitants include:

Fish:
2 Ocellaris Clownfish (tank raised)
1 Blue Green Chromis (Chromis viridis)
1 Lawnmower Blennie (Salarias fasciatus)
1 Coral Banded Shrimp (Stenopus hispidus)
Many snails, red- and blue-legged hermit crabs, 15-20 mini seastars

Corals:
Toadstool (Sarcophyton sp.) frag
Devilshand (Lobophytum sp.) frag
Brain Coral (Trachyphyllia sp.) frag
Candy Cane (Caulastrea furcata) frag (3 heads)
Tree coral (Paralemnalia sp.)
10-15 Different Mushroom Corals
2 good colonies of zoos (brown)
4 different kinds of star polyps
1 small Bubble Tip Anemone (Entacmaea quadricolor)

I have two big bunches of Chaetomorpha sp., and 4 small plants of Halimeda sp.

As for food, I use Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef Flakes every morning (3-5 flakes), 2-3 times a week I'll put in a cube of either frozen Mysis Shrimp or frozen Super Brine Shrimp, and 2-3 times a week I'll add a capful of ZooPlex (at night) and Micro-Vert (at mid day.)

JM68 · #2 05/11/2007, 03:37 PM

Its best to identify the problem in order to fix it and prevent the growth, but sometimes thats very hard no matter how much work u do. There is a product made to get rid of red slime, its called Ultralife Red Slime Remover. Its totally reef safe and it can be used on a regular basis as a treatment or preventative. Check it out on marine depot. I've never had a problem with red slime so i've never used it in my tank, but my friend uses it whenever needed and it works great(totally gone within 2 days) with no ill effects on the tank.

Der_Iron_Chef · #3 05/11/2007, 03:40 PM

How old/new is your tank? Sometimes I think newer tanks just go through cycles and then equalize after a time. Mine did. I had cyanobacteria a few times, and hasn't been a problem since.

One major thing to consider is flow. If there are stagnant areas of the tank, cyanobacteria will often grow. Do you have a substrate?

Der_Iron_Chef · #4 05/11/2007, 03:41 PM

One more thing. Use any cyano "fixes" with caution. I used one recommended by my LFS (I forget the name....it was like some antibiotic or something), and it wiped out all my fish and several of my corals! Not cool.

I prefer addressing the reason for the problem instead of treating the symptom!

JM68 · #5 05/11/2007, 03:44 PM

Idk what your LFS gave you, but the stuff i was talking about definitely will not kill anything in your tank other than the cyano. They probably gave you something that also knocked out the good bacteria in your tank and cause a spike. You should check the Ultralife stuff out.

paran · #6 05/11/2007, 04:09 PM

I was wondering about using one of those "Red Slime Remover" products, but I really want to make sure it's safe. I do have a lot at stake in my tank.

One other thing I noticed while going through the forums just now is that it might not be cyano, but possibly a red turf algae problem.

That would make a big difference.

That would make sense.. I have only 8 hermit crabs total for my tank..

My local source (I will not consider him my LPS since he is MUCH more knowledgeable than the others in the are) tells me I should also get a tang.

My tank is a year and a half old. I let my tank cycle a full six months before adding any fish to it.

And as far as stagnant areas, there isn't many since I use rotating defelctors on all 3 of my powerheads.

Rhodesholar · #7 05/11/2007, 04:10 PM

I am not saying this is the problem but it is good knowledge. For the purists I realize this article is written for Microalgae however Cyano "may" be caused by the same factors and thus this article applies. I didn't see you mention that you use Kalk so this may not apply in your case however I have heard mention of localized breakouts regaurdless of Kalk use that this article mentions and still may apply or at least offer food for thought.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dyn...ine/micro.html

pmvalenti · #8 05/11/2007, 04:15 PM

i am actually using that right now, started a few days ago, when i had a bloom in my 40b, i used it and it worked great, but in my 175 not working so great, now i might not have dosed enough cause i lost the spoon. but it does work, just remember to take your collection cup off your skimmer, it'll pull it out (found out the hard way when it was all in the skimmer)

daytonians · #9 05/11/2007, 04:46 PM

I will never use any red slime remover products in my tank again.

To get rid of the slime or dinoflaglets, turn your tank's lights off for 3 to 4 days. Cover most of the tank with aluminum foil to keep light out. Just leave a window to look in. By the end of 3 days you will probably not have any red slime left, if there is go another day. The tank will look totally red slime free.

Most likely, the slime will slowly start coming back after a couple of weeks. You need to treat the real cause of the outbreak. You have too much phosphates in your tank. Fight it by getting a bigger skimmer, and running a PhosBan type phosphate remover. It also helps to run lots of carbon. Use a good quality carbon like Black Diamond.

The phos removers help clean the water up fast. Then, if your skimmer is big enough you won't need to run the phos removers anymore.

Serioussnaps · #10 05/12/2007, 04:26 PM

Run a GFO--granular ferric oxide.....or phosphate remover...i recommend phosar, phosban and rowa. Also, a good skimmer..i think you are underskimming. Also...you dont have a deepsandbed...you have a short sandbed....deititrus and food trap IMO.

Scoobydude825 · #11 05/12/2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daytonians
I will never use any red slime remover products in my tank again.

To get rid of the slime or dinoflaglets, turn your tank's lights off for 3 to 4 days. Cover most of the tank with aluminum foil to keep light out. Just leave a window to look in. By the end of 3 days you will probably not have any red slime left, if there is go another day. The tank will look totally red slime free.

I thought that the red slime was a bacteria and not photosynthetic. I turn off my lights for a couple days a month to control the hair algea but I can't quite kick the red slime..It covers most of my sand.

DreamerTheresa · #12 05/12/2007, 04:55 PM

Heh. Sounds like my tank urrently. Part of my problem is that we only recently purchased our RO/DI unit, so probably half of what is in our 135 gallon is residual treated tap water.

We're moving across town at the end of the month (NOT looking forward to moving the tank), so that should take care of the tap water problem and hopefully resolve my cyano problem.

...I probably feed too much, too, which contributes to the problem.

edit: Man, what's up with all the Pokemon default avatars? LoL

daytonians · #13 05/14/2007, 09:05 AM

What is called red slime is usually either Cyano Bacteria, Dinoflaglets, or in most cases a mixture of the two. Cyano is definitely a bacteria, but at the same time is photosynthetic. It takes 3 days without light to see it dieing, and usually 4 days for it to totally disappear. It really does work, I have done it many times myself.

Village Idiot · #14 05/14/2007, 09:38 AM

What's the TDS of your RO water?

RichConley · #15 05/14/2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JM68
Idk what your LFS gave you, but the stuff i was talking about definitely will not kill anything in your tank other than the cyano. They probably gave you something that also knocked out the good bacteria in your tank and cause a spike. You should check the Ultralife stuff out.

\
that sort of stuff will kill the cyano, but it doesnt fix the problem (and actually makes it worse.)

You've got high phosphates. Deal with them.

daytonians · #16 05/14/2007, 09:48 AM

I agree with Rich Conley. The only way to keep the red slime away is to lower your nutrient levels. Shutting off the lights is only a temporary fix. Be patient, and deal with the problem long term. Not with chemicals.

Rhodesholar · #17 05/14/2007, 11:03 AM

Guys I have the same problem and nothing solves it. Check this out. ANY ambient light makes it grow. 3 days no light? More cyano just from the ambient light in the room. I swear it grows under my moon lights. When my halides come on it disappears. I run GFO, carbon, change water, baste the rocks, 60x turnover, etc. and it follows the same cycle. I have read everything about cyano and the article I posted earlier is the only thing I can think applies in my case and probably alot of other cases.

Pandomime · #18 05/14/2007, 11:27 AM

I had the same red slime problem a while back and i tried EVERYTHING! to get rid of it. i did the no light thing and it kept coming back. I started feeding my fish only once a day in small amounts to lower nutients in the water and it still came back even with frequent water changes. syphoning it off the rock NEVER really gets all of it even if it looks like you have. The only way i got rid of it was to take out the rocks that had the slime on them, put them in a bucket of RO water and go at them with a toothbrush. Afterwards i rinsed them and that was it. My rocks where left spotless and the slime never came back.

impur · #19 05/14/2007, 12:04 PM

I've been thru this as well. I think i tried every single suggestion on these boards. None worked.

Then i tried Chemiclean. Dosed it overnight and haven't seen a spot of cyano for over 18months now.

akaatomic · #20 05/14/2007, 12:05 PM

Cyano can grow from phosphates or nitrates. If your phosphates are high, there's nothing that you can do other than run a remover or do some large water changes. Turning the lights out gets rid of it, but when it dies off it breaks down into nitrates and just feeds the next outbreak. If you test for nitrates or phos it may come up fine on the test. Most times the cyano pulls it out of the water so fast that it's barely traceable, so don't go crazy there. Evaluate your skimmer to make sure that it's right for your tank and skimming wet enough. Phosban works great, but it takes a month or so to really be effective. You're either overfeeding (and underskimming) or your RO water needs to be tested for phosphates. I've heard that things like Red Slime Remover are anti-bacterial substances. They kill cyano, but also kill the beneficial bacteria in your tank. Be careful that you don't end up with "dead rock".

Rhodesholar · #21 05/14/2007, 12:21 PM

I don't want to hijack this guys thread but perhaps my discussions here can help him.

There is more to this stuff then reducing nutrients, I am sure of it or it needs next to nothing to grow. I feed every other day. Like I said I have read and done everything and I am still plagued by it. I run GFO, and maybe have to clean my glass once a week, but I have cyano everyday. I have 0 hair algae. Every morning, cyano. Once the halides are on for a couple hours, it disappears.

I run RO/DI water that test 0 for TDS and NO3 and PO4. I swap out my filter sock every other day with a fresh one.

Cyano is the work of the devil.

akaatomic · #22 05/14/2007, 12:47 PM

It doesn't take much to grow. How's the flow in your tank? I'm surprised that light recedes it.

Rhodesholar · #23 05/14/2007, 01:01 PM

akaatomic,

You didn't read all the info did ya

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhodesholar
Guys I have the same problem and nothing solves it. Check this out. ANY ambient light makes it grow. 3 days no light? More cyano just from the ambient light in the room. I swear it grows under my moon lights. When my halides come on it disappears. I run GFO, carbon, change water, baste the rocks, 60x turnover, etc. and it follows the same cycle. I have read everything about cyano and the article I posted earlier is the only thing I can think applies in my case and probably alot of other cases.

At least 60x turnover.

Yes light recedes it. I know I can't believe it either but it is true.

impur · #24 05/14/2007, 04:01 PM

It grew on the output of my Seio 820, so flow has next to nothing to do with it.

daytonians · #25 05/14/2007, 05:28 PM

If you look at my earlier post, it says that I cover the tank almost completely with aluminum foil to block room light from getting in. I just leave a small window open near the top, so I can check in on things with a flashlight. The fish will come up and look out the "window" also.