YWG pairing attempt

[tcarlson]

Nicole-
Are you really sure you want to remove it from the tank for a extended amount of time? What if they are like clowns and have a limited biological clock before they become the dominant sex?
Just trying to throw out ideas.

I am starting to see behavior similar to clowns. The large one will lunge at the small one. The small one dodges the attack hovers above the sand bed for a second and then sits back down in place. If it were afraid for its life the small one should dart into the rocks one would think. Is this dominant/submissive behavior like we see in clowns?

This has actually become exciting for me because little has been written, even antidotal about forming a pair of YWG and I hope those trying this can come up with a better idea of sexing and pairing YWGs.

I hope there is a good turn of events for you tommorow.

Tom

[NicoleC]

I think this is different than the dominant/submissive behavior I've been seeing so far. Little Guy is very, very frightened and upset. When pairing maroon clowns, sometimes you have to introduce the fish multiple times -- but their acceptance, etc. seems to happen quickly when it happens. So I thought along the same lines, I might give the little guy a rest and good food for a week or two somewhere totally safe, then introduce him back to the tank,

He started going around the edge of the tank again in an agitated fashion -- I guess he WAS resting on that rock. He stopped by the heater, so I stuck a finger in to wiggle near him to get him to move away, and he bolted in sheer terror. This is not normal for him. Now he is MIA There are plenty of places to hide, but none that I can't see into somehow so far.

[tcarlson]

My dominant/submissive behavior was refering to the actions of my YWGs today. I can honestly tell you I don't understand the response that your small YWG is taking.

I have been there watching it the first time day after day and even during this second try for the first couple of days I saw that behavior on and off. It makes little sense because if the little one wants to hide then there are plent of places. Instead of hiding yours is probally doing this stange kind of swiming I can only describe as "flitting around" and it gets spooked or picked on by the other fish.

You may not want to think about this at this point but...
I am a week behind you a much closer to a pairing. Could YWG be sexed at birth? Have you formed an in compatible pairing? Is the small one is looking to get away from "this area of the reef" to find another partner?
Throwing out ideas...Trying to figure it out

If you have the time and money why don't you take the small one out give it some time out in a separate area and introduce different small YWG to Gobiwan?

[NicoleC]

Originally posted by tcarlson
You may not want to think about this at this point but...
I am a week behind you a much closer to a pairing. Could YWG be sexed at birth? Have you formed an in compatible pairing? Is the small one is looking to get away from "this area of the reef" to find another partner?
Throwing out ideas...Trying to figure it out

If you have the time and money why don't you take the small one out give it some time out in a separate area and introduce different small YWG to Gobiwan?

That's my thoughts, YWG's bay very well be sexed at birth. No one knows. It may just be that my little one is too young, or that my big one is just too cantankerous. I knew it was a risk, but I hoped they would at least inhabit the tank peacefully since they have enough room.

The little one has really livened up my tank. Now I just gotta CATCH him... after I find him.

Ironically, while at Jeff's I saw 2 YWG's snuggling in the corner in a large tank. They were clearly a pair or on the way to it, but what would I do with the 2 YWG's I have?!

[aquariumclown]

Nicole,

I would gladly inherit any fish you decide to let go of. Especially when my new tank is coming in 2 weeks. I planned on adding new fishies when I get the new tank since it will be 3 times bigger than what I have now. That is as soon as the tank is stable.

Leo

[NicoleC]

Thanks, Leo. He stuck his nose out to eat -- around back again. If and when I catch him, I will figure out what to do then.

[NicoleC]

Caught him! He was hovering lethargically and even permitted the yellow neon that also hangs around back of the rock to clean him for a while, which clearly made the neon's day! After lights out, he started his routine looking for an exit, and didn't even put up a fight when I netted him.

Little guy is in the little nano now and looking more comfortable already, sitting on the sand.

But I can't win. The little yellow neon got agitated when I took him out! There's a blue neon that was very sick in the nano for observation to keep him company.

[dc]

Bummer, maybe he was just too small. The LFS here has a brownish one there that is pretty good sized. You may have to go for larger if you try again.

[NicoleC]

He's puttering around the new tank deciding which spot he likes this morning. If that rubble I bought is cured, I will give him some more interesting digs than a pile of rubble and a cup full of sand, or maybe clean out the 10g and move him there.

Guess I'll train him to hand feed and not to be afraid of tank tools which I ponder what to do.

TCarlson, I hope you are having better luck?

[Sardaukar]

Cool story - can't wait to hear what happens in the future. Feel free to post all the gratuitous pictures that you want

[tcarlson]

Nothing new here, but nothing new is better than something bad. Hope your little guy calms down.

[chicki]

Sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you Nicole, I think you should try again though...having a pair is sooo neat!

I've had a pair now for two years and every month to 6 weeks they have a clutch of eggs (that of course never hatch or hatch and are consumed right away) I think that you will know almost instantly if they are different gender or not, at least I did. I had Lemoan for about 6 months and then added a smaller one (citron). I purposely placed him just outside Lemoan's cave. Lemoan came out of his cave and they circled each other for about 10 seconds with mouths open and fins up and then Lemoan showed Citron his cave and she/he followed him in and they've been together ever since.

[NicoleC]

Wow, that easy for you? You got lucky, or else it was love at first sight

I think I want to try the fatten up/reintroduce option, but hot weather is coming and this little 2.5g will probably not be usable for long

[NicoleC]

SUCCESS!!!

"Little Guy" has been in the nano by himself all week. A local reefer (nanocat) aquired a YWG and offer to trade to see if the second goby would be a successful match. After some hemming and hawing on my part (I get attached to my fish), I took her up on her offer.

Last night, I removed my DSB, which meant rearranging the tank a bit, and Gobiwon was very stressed last night, although he found a couple of his old dens immediately. I was not totally comfortable with the timing.

While Little Guy was snug in his nano, this very beautiful, perfect, bright yellow, smaller goby was introduced to the tank. She was raring to go, and swam out of the bag as soon as I dipped a corner in. She settled on the sand bed and we settled in to wait. A few minutes later, Gobiwon stuck his nose out to see if all was clear. As soon as she caught sight of him, she swam over, jaws puffed -- and he ran away! (Despite being almost twice her size!)

She then went in his den and checked it out. It was clear that she was moving in. He returned and they scuffled inside the den where I couldn't see much. After a bit, the fight came outside. Both were puffing their jaws and bumping into each other, mostly sideways. They circled a bit. Within moments, they started quivering at each other. Like clowns, but neither rolled sideways and they were twitching together and at each other while side by side on the sand bed.

Within 5 minutes, they were acting like an old couple. "She" tends to stay in the mouth of the den. "He" guards out front on the sand. He showed her the other entrances to the cave. They had a bite of sand together. They swam along the sand bed in perfect unison, turning and stopping at the same time. Several times, "she" would lay sideways on top of the "male," bodies crossed. (Incidentally, this was the pose I saw at Jeff's Exotic Fish last weekend when I decided two YWG's were a pair or were pairing. It seems I was correct -- poor guys probably got split up.)

15 minutes later, nanocat leaves with Little Guy, and I'm sitting on the couch still stunned at the whole performance and the suddeness of their dominance and/or courtship ritual.

Gobiwon comes out by himself and starts searching up on the rocks. I think he was looking for Little Guy -- his competition? -- since Gobiwon does not get on the rocks normally and only did when Little Guy was in the tank. Hmmm. Glad the little guy wasn't around.

Next, I see the two peeking around a rock looking at me. I swear Gobiwon was telling her I was the crazy human that wrecked their home, but I brought good tasting food on a regular basis. They surreptitiously checked me out from various angles behind this rock for several minutes. I tried not to look too much, it seemed to disturb them

Lights are out now, so no good pics yet. Maybe tomorrow or Saturday I will get some pair pics up. I also caught a bit of video of their courtship between fight and snuggling before my clowns decided to swim right in front of the camera, but unfortunately forgot to turn off the audio.

I am completely thrilled and humbled. When they started quivering at each other, the clowns started quivering and doing their love dance at each other, too. I felt like I should put on Barry White!

I have used gender pronouns here loosely, as I don't know what their typical gender roles are. But the new one is younger and prettier, and moved in over his objections... so, "she"

[aquariumclown]

Nice work Nicole. And they lived happily ever after

[NicoleC]

(Oh yeah, and the RBTA is getting settled in and opening up, too, Leo. Thanks again!)

[tatoofr]

Hi,
How long does it take ywg to adjust to a new reef?
I put two in my 120g and have not seen them in 3 weeks! I don't know if they were a pair, I just picked two out of the dealers tank that had about 25 of them in it. I also bought a tiger pistol shrimp that I've seen a couple of times.

Thanks,
Frank

[chicki]

Congrads Nicole!

Sounds just like my pair, I think with the YWG's it's pretty much love at first site or not at all.

[aquariumclown]

Originally posted by tatoofr
Hi,
How long does it take ywg to adjust to a new reef?
I put two in my 120g and have not seen them in 3 weeks! I don't know if they were a pair, I just picked two out of the dealers tank that had about 25 of them in it. I also bought a tiger pistol shrimp that I've seen a couple of times.

Thanks,
Frank

Frank, what are the other fish you have in your tank. I know that large fish swimming around will keep small fish such as ywg in hiding all the time, in many cases they starve because they are too scared to come out to eat.

Leo

[NicoleC]

Gobies are highly predated upon in the wild and so YWG's are adept at hiding if they are frightened or if the environment is inappropriate. Some people have also reported not seeing theirs for months in very large tanks.

Give them lots of caves and places to hide in spots convenient to you before introduction, and they will be more likely to take up residence somewhere visible.

[NicoleC]

Okay, here we go. I finally got some reasonably good pics.



And the little missy (?) is either getting enormously fat, or I suppose it's remotely possible she's with eggs already:

[nanocat]

I don't know what a PG YWG looks like, but she does look a little gravid in the midsection. Good luck

[NicoleC]

You should see her in person -- that pic doesn't do it justice. The past couple of days I've seen her get bigger... and bigger... I knew she was an aggressive eater, but this is a bit much

My assumption was that they'd require at least months of stability to spawn, but given the speed they hooked up, perhaps YWG's are more... prolific?

[ozadars]

Congradulations!

Thats really good that this thread finally ended with happy news.

However i cant find my ywg for a week, i think this big hitchhiker crab ate it

[reefy em]

I'm so glad to hear it worked out for you. They are just picture-perfect in a pair. And she does look like she's got some buns in the oven.