Long term success with a harem of bartlett anthias?

[Scuba Dog]

Just picked up my first bartletts, could not turn down three for 80 bucks, wish he had more than three though. I believe they are all females.

[eaglesrx]

zemuron,

I agree w/the higher density. I've never seen them in the wild, but my guess is they swim in a small area d/t predators, possibly aggressive fish. Thus, forcing them to stay in a school and establish the social hierarchy. As zemuron was alluding to, a tank w/a low density of anthias probably allows the anthias to turn male since they don't have to worry about aggression from other anthias or predators.

Anyone see these fish in the wild? This is interesting stuff.

[zemuron114]

Ill ask around here to see if anyone has dove with them before. A few people here have been diving in xmas island, so it shouldn't be that hard to find out.

[SDguy]

Thanks for taking the time to add to this thread

[Scuba Dog]

So far the trio of bartletts I purchased esterday are staying in close proximity. Eating quite well, they prefer flakes over frozen foods. I also have a five inch nasso thats zooming arond the tank and Im sure that keeps the anthias closer together.

[eaglesrx]

bump... any diving experiences w/bartlett's?

[zemuron114]

No one on these boards will probably have diving experience with bartletts. Getting to christmas island is almost impossible and VERY expensive. 99% of the bartletts coming in are from christmas. Ill ask around

[SDguy]

Trying a little experiment. Added two very small, very yellow female bartletts to my lone, medium sized, very pink bartlett. None of the other fish pay the new ones any attention, not even the lyretails. The single established bartlett, on the other hand, is going nuts. Lots of displaying, a little chasing. Things have calmed down now, it seems, and all three hang out together. I'm hoping a few things will go as expected.

1. The difference in size and dominance, coupled with the clear difference in gender, will keep the male/female ratio.

2. The smaller tank size, coupled with the presence of the lyretails, will also keep the females, female.

I will update as things progress, good or bad.

[Scuba Dog]

I had bad results with my new addition. I added a very pink male to a group of three females. The male was beatenup and proceaded to hide in the rockwork. After a day I fished him out and moved him to my other 180 inwhich there is no anthias, I still have yet to see the fish.

[SDguy]

Originally posted by Scuba Dog
I had bad results with my new addition. I added a very pink male to a group of three females. The male was beatenup and proceaded to hide in the rockwork. After a day I fished him out and moved him to my other 180 inwhich there is no anthias, I still have yet to see the fish.

I would actually expect this to happen. Even if the dominant fish (established resident) looks "less male" than the new addition, the dominance will trump any color difference, IME.

[Scuba Dog]

Thanks SD Guy, I have a pretty steep learning curve with anthias! Although the three current residents are doing superb!

[eaglesrx]

interesting little case study there SDguy. Keep us posted!!

[SDguy]

One interesting note, and this has been consistent since they were added. The established male is much more aggressive to the new ones later in the evening. I thought it was because of feeding time usually being later in the day (after work), but I've been feeding them periodically all day today. Hmmm...

[SDguy]

Well, here they are. Like I said, quite distinct in size and color.

Male:


Medium female:


Small female:

[zemuron114]

did the bigger female have the pink stripe on her head before or after you put them in the tank? IME the pink means either male or changing male. Looks like she has a while to go to become a male but the pink stripe (vivid pink and solid line) means possible male later on... nice females though

[SDguy]

They both have pink on the front of the dorsal fin (you just can't see it in the pic of the smaller one). The larger female has a bit more, which would explain, coupled with size, why she gets more attention/aggressive behavior from the male. The small one only gets attention, never aggression.

This has already revealed something interesting. If a specimen with tha much yellow is already "on its way" to being a male, good luck finding completely yellow females to buy.

[CarlC]

I was at a store this weekend. First time there. The owner has a incredible reef display. The 180G tank has a few tangs, a couple Centropyge and 8 bartletts. The bartletts were all males. I asked him his opinion on why they all turned males and he had no idea but said he got tired of removing males and adding females because they never stayed female. The oldest males in the tank have been in there for two years. The tank has been running for three years.

Carl

[SDguy]

Wow, interesting. Thanks for the info.

[CarlC]

I am going to stop back next weekend. I'll see if I can get some pics. The supermales were absolutely stunning!

Carl

[King-Kong]

Wow carl -- that's actually really sad to hear, lol. Doesnt make me hold out for the future.

SDGuy: I did what you did a while ago and so far everything is fine. Added 2 extremely small bartletts to my LARGE male. The male is CONSTANTLY whipping the smaller ones in the face, so we'll see.

[eaglesrx]

Interesting that the females kept on turning male in that 180g setup. Possibly the exception to the rule??? I would have expected the males to beat on the new females to try to keep them female or at least a couple of males suppressing the remaining females who haven't converted yet.

Well, at least the males are beautiful fish. Would love to see some tank shots!

[SDguy]

Originally posted by King-Kong
The male is CONSTANTLY whipping the smaller ones in the face, so we'll see.

LOL, excellent description of the action...mine does the same.

[zemuron114]

this makes me think that the more bartletts you have the better chance some will stay females. In a 180, now my thought is 15 or more to keep a harem.... this is odd. and quite annoying

[SDguy]

Originally posted by zemuron114
this makes me think that the more bartletts you have the better chance some will stay females. In a 180, now my thought is 15 or more to keep a harem.... this is odd. and quite annoying

I was thinking that too, but then I start thinking....well, more females = less time the male spends per female = more likely the female is to change since she isn't constantly harassed because the male has to harass so many other females. Hmmm.....

[eaglesrx]

15 or more to keep a harem!!! Darn it!! Say it ain't so!! I want to keep a low to medium bioload in my next tank. Hmm, there's gotta be more people out there who keep around 8 females/1 male ratio in roughly a 180g??!!