What rare angel is the least owned?

[triggerfish1976]

One thing to consider with this debate is the dietary and habitat shifts that many fish go through from Juvenile to Adult that may come into play regarding WC and CB specimans.
Many large Angelfish like Bandits, Personifers, etc. become predominate spong eaters when they reach adulthood and that is why they adapt poorly to aquarium life when collected larger than a few inches but their diet is completely different when they are young and they can weened on meeting foods and algae that is void of sponge and grow to be happy and healthy fish in an aquarium. Some can also be found in shallower more tropical sections of the reef when they are young and eventually migrate deeper for various reasons.
What I am getting at is maybe the CB part is not the key but the fact that they are able to adapt to different temps. and diets because they are being raised at a much younger age and do not have to resort to living in deeper water in order to breed, avoid predation, or food.
What I just said might be far fetched but it was worth a try.

[coralite]

I love how we're having a discussion/debate about water temp acclimation/adaptation and I interject the single determining biological factor which determines a species' environmental temperature and we just keep on debating with pseudoscience. Nice

[triggerfish1976]

You're right. I missed your original thread.

[jmaneyapanda]

Originally posted by coralite
I love how we're having a discussion/debate about water temp acclimation/adaptation and I interject the single determining biological factor which determines a species' environmental temperature and we just keep on debating with pseudoscience. Nice

Not to be argumentative, but I completely disgaree with this statement. I think it is a rather abrupt and shortsighted statment that the "single determining biological factor" for species environmental temperature is enzymes. There are FAR more issues than this. This may be correct in metabolic, or physiological terms, but environmentally and ecologically, I think there are considerably more issues to address.

Please dont take this comment as an attack, I do not intend it to be so.

[coralite]

The mechanism for physiological adaptation to temperature is enzymatic. Of course when you look at a whole ecosystem there dozens of major factors at play. But for the sake of acclimating fish to higher temps enzymes are governing the process. Over seasonal scales of temperature change, cold blooded animals shift their production of enzymes to suit the changing temperature and the new suite of enzymes allows them to carry out their metabolism at an ideal level. This is absolutely not the case with warm blooded animals who maintain a narrow range of body temperatures.

[jmaneyapanda]

Originally posted by coralite
The mechanism for physiological adaptation to temperature is enzymatic. Of course when you look at a whole ecosystem there dozens of major factors at play. But for the sake of acclimating fish to higher temps enzymes are governing the process. Over seasonal scales of temperature change, cold blooded animals shift their production of enzymes to suit the changing temperature and the new suite of enzymes allows them to carry out their metabolism at an ideal level. This is absolutely not the case with warm blooded animals who maintain a narrow range of body temperatures.

Yes, I agree with this completely for a discription of physiological temperature adaptation within individual fish. My point is there is much more to be considered when thinking of the species as a whole. For example, how do we explain the tremendous variation in depth and temperature certain species of fish can be found naturally? One individual may be found near the surface at warmer temps, while another individual of the same species at a greater depth, and consequently a lesser temperature.
Another important point to consider is the ability of different species to create the different enzyme suites. There is not an infinite number of enzyme suites that can function over a huge spectrum of temperature that every species of fish can create. There are absolute limitations between each different species as to what enzyme can be produced to offer functionality at certain temps. For example, certain species of aquarium fish absolutely do not thrive at typical aquarium water temperatures, likely because they cannot create the necessary enzymes and other metabolites necessary for survival at 80 degrees F. Yet, species within the same genus can.
Overall, I think we are likely saying the same thing, but perhaps just focusing on seperate "hotpoints".

[zemuron114]

IME deep water fish do not like high temps, and long term they will not survive. Whatever the cause may be, it is a certainty that they will die in high temps...