Lfs with reasonable dry good prices?

[traderdan]

I went to a local fish store yesterday to buy a mag 12 and they wanted 179.95. On Marinedepot.com they want 116.99. I don't mind spending like 20% more to buy local so I can support local busines, but not over 50% more that seems like a crazy mark up. If anyone knows of a local chicago area store, anywhere in the chicago area that has reasonable dry good prices please let me know.
Thanks everyone and happy holidays!!!!

[Fish_wiz2]

You could try old orchard aquarium (maybe in stock) or living sea (order) but never try old town aquarium (their crazy) also even thought it says $117 on marine depot you forgot shipping (it gets everyone) and it might be $20 (because of weight) bring the total to $140 and $20 more you could buy it a place where you could "return" it.

[444reefkeeper]

LFS in Chicago with good drygood prices? ShoTank in Mundelien has Mag 12s at $125.

[Pufferpunk]

Forget about Living Sea. Their prices are comparable to Old Town. Best prices I've seen around me is Coral Reef. Tell them what the Marine Depot price is & see if they'll match it. Be sure you tell them you're a CMAS member (if you are) & talk to Jim or Mitch. 708-456-0768.

[esdayal]

Jenny, I personally would never buy anything from living Sea unless its on sale as there prices are always on the higher end. Btw, My brother just bought a x-large Neso Blonde from them for $250.

[canar]

This thread is funny. I had the exact same thing happen to me a week ago at Tropi Quatics. Same pump.

They are right by my office so it is convienient. I called and spoke to the owner. I nicely asked him if he could at least get closer to the going price. I was very willing to pay a little more then the online price to support local. He was not willing to move his price and then proceeded to give me a lecture on how people like me are what is putting all the LFS's out of business.

I think if these stores would be at least close to the online price a lot more people would buy from them. To expect to almost double your money on dry goods seems overkill to me.

We need more LFS's down south!

[fish-freek-3000]

ya that is out of line. there is no need to charge that much i know stores that charge 130 for the same pump. they manage to stay in business.

[Pufferpunk]

My brother just bought a x-large Neso Blonde from them for $250.

Was that a sale price?

[N3gative Cr33p]

Originally posted by canar
He was not willing to move his price and then proceeded to give me a lecture on how people like me are what is putting all the LFS's out of business.

Wow... if some store owner (fish store or otherwise) said something like this to me, I'd never shop at that store again... but that's just me.

And if you ask me, lectures like his could be the reason behind most LFS going out of business...

[444reefkeeper]

Originally posted by N3gative Cr33p
Wow... if some store owner (fish store or otherwise) said something like this to me, I'd never shop at that store again... but that's just me.

And if you ask me, lectures like his could be the reason behind most LFS going out of business...

Yep. Definitely out of line.

Speaking your mind is great. As a store owner though, I would think he would benefit from keeping some things to himself.

[USAquatics]

I couldn't disagree more. The LFS is were most in the hobby started. They take hours of time to educate, help set up, and answer thousands of questions per week from people. The same people that will in an instant pump them for knowledge and info only to run to the web and shop to save a buck. Then people wonder why LFS go out of business. The cost of running an LFS is about 10 times that of running a warehouse or web based business. A typical LFS has between $10-20K in expenses per month before they sell their first mag 12, or clown fish. Rent, electric, insurance, water, gas, sewer, trash, 3% credit card fees, payroll, taxes, yellow pages, phone, bad checks, guaranteeing fish, air freight, distributors mark up, etc. They answer their phone and you get to speak to a human being, usually the guy with the most interest in your success. You can visit and compair mulitple items side by side. See live inventory and evaluate the health for your self. And for all that they deserve, and need to charge a premium price. Without the LFS, the hobby dies. Not today, not tommorow, but eventually. Ask all of the major aquatic manufacturers what type of year they have had. Not a merry one. This is because they sold their souls years ago to the catalog companies and didn't protect their retails. Now they are paying for their sins. My point, the LFS is probably what started you in this fascinating hobby. Will they always have the best price, sometimes not, but will they be there tommorrow at 8PM when you have an emergency. You bet. We should thank the owners for taking a risk to help us support the hobby. And if they don't have the best price, we should at least not bash them. Not many LFS owners are living the high life. Most are working 60+ hours and making an honest living.

[aiko670]

Advanced Aquatics has a great selection of Dry Goods(most are in the back but if you ask the probably have it) and their dry good prices are actually more reasonable then their live stock prices believe it or not. At least in my experience...

[traderdan]

Ok, I got my mag 12 pump. I had to go to skokie to get a wine cooler for my dad at brookstone, so I called old orchard for a price on this pump. The gentleman I spoke with told me it was against store policy to quote prices on the phone, oh well. So, since I was in Skokie I stopped by to get a price. Allen, I believe his name was, quoted the price at $283.00. Holy cow, if I had this kind of price I wouldn't quote it over the phone either. So after getting this price I decide to drive to sho tank, what the heck I've already been on the road for an hour and a half whats another 30 minutes. At sho tank Mark told me that he sells this pump for $125.00, but he is out of stock. He then tells me he has a used one for $65.00 so I didn't hesitate in buying it. So lets recap, local store The ark $179.95, Marine Depot $116.00, Old orchard $283.00 crazy, and last but definetly not least sho tank $125.00.

[traderdan]

Originally posted by USAquatics
I couldn't disagree more. The LFS is were most in the hobby started. They take hours of time to educate, help set up, and answer thousands of questions per week from people. The same people that will in an instant pump them for knowledge and info only to run to the web and shop to save a buck. Then people wonder why LFS go out of business. The cost of running an LFS is about 10 times that of running a warehouse or web based business. A typical LFS has between $10-20K in expenses per month before they sell their first mag 12, or clown fish. Rent, electric, insurance, water, gas, sewer, trash, 3% credit card fees, payroll, taxes, yellow pages, phone, bad checks, guaranteeing fish, air freight, distributors mark up, etc. They answer their phone and you get to speak to a human being, usually the guy with the most interest in your success. You can visit and compair mulitple items side by side. See live inventory and evaluate the health for your self. And for all that they deserve, and need to charge a premium price. Without the LFS, the hobby dies. Not today, not tommorow, but eventually. Ask all of the major aquatic manufacturers what type of year they have had. Not a merry one. This is because they sold their souls years ago to the catalog companies and didn't protect their retails. Now they are paying for their sins. My point, the LFS is probably what started you in this fascinating hobby. Will they always have the best price, sometimes not, but will they be there tommorrow at 8PM when you have an emergency. You bet. We should thank the owners for taking a risk to help us support the hobby. And if they don't have the best price, we should at least not bash them. Not many LFS owners are living the high life. Most are working 60+ hours and making an honest living.

Usaquatics you must be a rich person who doesn't care about money, or a poor person who waste his money because you don't realize the value of a dollar, or a owner of a fish store. I own music stores in northwest Indiana, which is by far much more of a competitive business both by internet and local stores than the fish biz. I get people into the hobby of playing instruments just like lfs. All of my prices in my store are internet prices or at the most 10% above on all items over $20.00. I do this to be competitive and to stay in bussiness, but if I counted on this to survive I would be broke. So I give music lessons, have higher mark up on things like strings, picks, etc. I find a way to stay in business and make a profit, and I do a good job at that. I see a lot of threads on why people can't understand why lfs go out of business so fast in the area. After being in this hobby for such a short period I can tell you why. Most lfs don't know how to price items. Its not all about just offering low prices, which stores have to do in this age but you have to find other networks to make money in your industry. If you can't then save your money and don't open a store. They must use their imagination, because people will not donate their money to a pet store. I think I would rather donate my extra money to the needy, cancer research, education, or maybe the local food pantry, but not the guy who is trying to charge me over 50% more for the exact product as others sell. Thats like me saying since I like the community I live in, I'm going to pay 50% more on my property tax. The community made me like this area so why not pay more just for the principle, Thats silly. Maybe I'm just a scrooge, or maybe I'm just not an idiot.

[tvrsir]

smart business hsould match internet regular prices and match the whole deal meaning add shipping cost to the deal.

you have to or you will go out of business. BUT I DON'T THINK RIPPING PEOPLE OF WITH THESE OUTRAGES PRICES IS NOT A GOOD START.


ALSO INFORMATION ABOUT THE HOBBY. i think nowadays the internet have taken most of that away from the store empployees.anyone who can read and comprehend what they're reading should be able to get a good start into this hobby.

[USAquatics]

trader,
the difference is the LFS has to buy much of his inventory through a distributor. MD does not. The distributor takes his 25%. The average difference between online (with shipping) and retail at the LFS. I'd guess that you buy most items direct from the manufacture. Also, do you guarantee your lessons? Can someone take a lesson, and come back in seven days and say the forgot what your taught, and want a refund? Do you sell live animals that people can take home, put into questionable water chemistry then come in and demand a credit. I do not own a LFS, nor am I rich. I do know like the local music store, if we don't support the locals, the hobby will go away. My enitre point was to not bash the LFS. I to, shop around. However, I don't blame one owner for his pricing strategy and bash the store for all the world to see. If I don't like the quote from the local plumber I don't get on line and tell the world he is ripping people off. I find a quote that fits my budget. Mosts local fish store will save you thousands of dollars over a period of time. Something as simple a a free water test, or having knowlegde about a "stinging" coral and how to place in the tank, to having 100 gallons of water ready to sell when I made a mistake and need to do a massive water change. Or calling a manufature to help settle a dispute over faulty equipment. So I have to ask, what is a reasonable amount for a LFS to make on a average $100 sale??

[USAquatics]

TVRsir,
I agree that if you can match on line prices and make a profit you shouild. I'd rather make $5 and keep a customer happy than have the customer trash me on line. The flip side is that customer will be conditioned to always look on line to lower his price at the store. I regards to the LFS not being a knowledge source, I disagee. There is a ton of bad info on line. How long after your first fish did it take you to find RC. The LFS is a vital compomnent to this hobby. The factor that we are talking about living things make it that way. Understanding water quality on line is like teaching someone the proper golf swing online.

[hansnfrans]

"I believe his name was, quoted the price at $283.00. Holy cow, if I had this kind of price I wouldn't quote it over the phone either. So after getting this price I decide to drive to sho tank"

traderdan - Glad to hear that you got this pump for a good price. This is exactly why I (and others) promote Sho Tank as one of our favorites. Matt has awesome prices on drygoods and livestock and still manages to stay in business....... Wow! How does he do it ? ? It's because he actually cares about the customer and doesn't see it necessary to rip off customers. I've just about had it with Old Orchard and their "no prices given over the phone policy" and their exorbitant prices.
(sorry for the rant, but I have kept to myself about Old Orchard and I just had to vent, and yes......I do feel much better now )

BTW: If you ever feel like drivin' around again, you should check out Rod's Reef out in DeKalb if you're into SPS and zoas.

[dohc97]

Old orchard is overpriced, but some of their stuff is right about in line with other stores. I think their fish prices are fair but i dont like the guy with the beard, i dont know if he is the owner or just a manager but i had a bad experience. i have also been holding back because people always come out of the wookwork to criticize people with bad experiences. i was walking around that store last summer and i was sending a text to Juan about their price on the rr 40 breeder when that guy with the beard started to tail me. he followed me all over the store and made me uncomfortable, eventually he walked up to me and asked if i was texting prices to his competitors. I believe he seriously thought i was sent to spy? I really felt out of place and proceded to walk out. I have never been to shotank but ill be headed that way soon as i hear great things about them, as soon as i get a car....
I would also not hesitate to suggest advanced aquatics, i bought some t5 reflectors from them for only a couple more dollars than online, to me the service and being able to have my stuff now is worth something.

thats about it for my rantings sorry guys about going long.

[traderdan]

We are on this web site to help people out with info. Part of the info process is pricing in other stores. All this info shared gives people the tools to make decisions that are the best for them. Some people call it bashing, I call it informing.

Usaquatics,
I use jobbers on small ticket items, but yes I go straight to the source for larger items. Lfs have this option too, but some cant afford the order requirements. Again if you can't afford to do business right then save your money and don't start one. Over the 12 years I have operated a variety of business I have seen many wholesale prices and I've never seen a jobber mark up their stuff 25%. Thats insane. People we are talking 3-5% more, that it period. If some store told you 25% then they flat out lied to you. I have never had a student or parent ask for money back on a lesson so I can't answer that question, but when my instructors are late I have a policy where we give the student a free 30 minute lesson. I have to keep my stores at the right humidty with very expensive equipement so the wood on the instruments doesn't bend. In every business there are expenses, but you comptetion has the same expenses as you, be it by local or internet. Again, let me make it clear I don't mind spending 20% more to shop local. I think this is fair because if I need to return it or need it now I can get it, but anything over this is crazy. I'm just giving my opinion, I'm definetly not some guru on business, but the template has been built by many other successfull businesses. Just try to be somewhat competitive local fish stores please.

[USAquatics]

The LFS cannot buy direct from the manufacturer. The industry is set up to sell through distribution. Other than small or high end manufacturers all items go through distribution. Hydor, Mag Drive, Instant Ocean, Ocean Nutrition, All Glass, Current USA, Eheim, Kent Marine, ESU, Jager, etc. and thousands more all need to be purchased through distribution. The distributor makes 20-25%. They need to. The load $500 worth of merchandise into a truck, haul it around the state for 25%. Not much profit for them either.
BTW, I am not trying to bust your chops, I just hope we get to the place where the LFS is recognized for what they do for all of us. I have seen too many stores fail, some need to, but the stores that carry inventroy, keep healthy live stock, and inform their customers need supported.

[traderdan]

I know your not trying to bust my chops. We are discussing, that is what forums are all about. My point is if Sho tank is selling this for $125.00 and another local is selling for $283.00 then one or both is out of line. If no one can buy from the source then they all pay the same price. Pricing in any business is one of the main reasons you stay in business or fail. If I go into a store to buy fish, pumps and other supplies I'm not personally going to spend $179.95-283.00 on something I can get for $116.95-125.00 other. Which means that I will buy elsewhere and also get all my stuff I am in need of at the cheaper store. This means that they priced them self out of the pump sale plus the fish and corals I want at the time. You probably know more of mark ups in the fish biz, but I would assume that fish and corals are 2-4 key mark up. Remember its not just the big item that makes them money its the add ons. You say we go in for info and walk away to buy at another establishment, but this doesn't need be, if only they price accordingly on the goods that are priced matched like pumps and other dry goods. Example I get shure mics from jobber and I make $1.00 on the sale of this item that sells for 99.95 everywhere, but then I sell the stand which I make 15.00 on the 29.95 item. These big fish stores make money, just follow the same formula or come up with new ways to produce income. I would never price match a fish, since they all look different and when I find the one I want I get it, but small stores will never see that profit if I leave the door because their other prices are not in check.

[traderdan]

BTW, I bought the pump at sho tank which is local and I will when ever I can buy local if the price reasonable. I do hope we all support local when possible.