OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef

[mrcrab]

Originally posted by steve the plumb
J maybe you can pay my visa bill(like in the commercial when it goes to zero)

How do you get a visa card with no job?

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by mrcrab
What're they gonna do...SURRENDER?

[steve the plumb]

I had a job crab.I left it now I am taking it easy and looking for work at my own pace.I think this is more of a joke thread.We spend more time harassing each other than we do on J's tank (you know the big one with the hole in the side of it thats waiting to bust its guts and cause the guys basement to be his new fish tank.)

[jnarowe]

MY WORST NIGHTMARE AND THANKS FOR THAT sTEVE! I always lamented that trying to take this beast down for whatever reason would just be too much for me. Now I am faced with it. So far the crazing has not grown beyond what you see in the pics, so that's about the best news I have right now.

It would be distrubing yet sucha train wreck that everyone would want to see pictures of it. In fact if it did bust, you know people would be asking if I took a video. The scariest part is that I can't be there all the time to monitor it, and any time I get an alarm message from the AquaController, I have to wonder if there is more than one issue and a flood is hidden behind something else.

No carpet on the bottom floor now so that won't be an issue.

[steve the plumb]

J this is an excuse for you to get a bigger glass tank maybe or get another acrylic tank but don't skimp on the thickness.After all if ecotech says your tank is to thin then they know what they are talking about.

[jnarowe]

glass is tough in an earthquake area dude...

[steve the plumb]

use enough silicone and you will make it flexible plus get glass cages to build you one of there commercial tanks.

[steve the plumb]

when was the last time you had an earthquake?

[jnarowe]

last week.

[steve the plumb]

I don't mean in the bedroom J

[gkarshens]

I don't think you would really have to worry too much about an earthquake doing damage. They don't usually get too big up there. I was in the Bay Area in 91 for the big one there and we didn't lose any glass.

[dhnguyen]

Hmm while I've let out farts that would rumble more than any earthquakes I've felt here, it is a possibility that a big one could cause some damage with a large glass tank.

Who knows though....
Nobody ever thought the Vortech would have caused THAT to J's tank and it did so....

[Kent E]

I've been following this thread forever and you guys crack me up!

[dhnguyen]

Wanna amuse yourself some more? Check out disturbedreefers.freeforums.org

Bring your sense of HAHA along though

[jnarowe]

first of all, earthquakes are greatly magnified in aquariums, and when you take into account the 10,000+lbs in mine, sloshing around, you are talking about a serious amount of weight shifting.

I grew up in Kalifornia and have been through many quakes. In my first floor place durig the Northridge quake, I lost nothing. The second floor above me lost everything, the place was completely wrecked and that gal had a Lalique coffee table worth about $100K. All glass and china was busted and we were many miles from the epicenter. I actually watched the floor do a 3 - 4 foot "wave". No way a glass tank would survive that.

I have also been in WA for a couple of small ones, but it really doesn't matter. The risk is high, and even higher with large tanks. With an acrylic tank, you really don't have to worry too much other than the water flowing out of it.

Anyway, anything above 150g and I would be very cautious in an earthquake area.

[Acrylics]

Originally posted by dhnguyen
Nobody ever thought the Vortech would have caused THAT to J's tank and it did so....

Not really, at least by itself in my opinion. There were several causative factors involved and the heat from the pump was but one of them. Please understand I'm not trying to re-hash this but since the misinformation is still going around, I'll correct what I can to the best of my ability.

The factors include:
Tank itself: the tank itself is made thinner than most of it's size. 35" in overall height, 32+" inside is pushing the limits of what the 3/4" material should be expected to accommodate.

Tank material: the tank was made many yrs ago by a company that is long defunct so the material used can never be known, therefore it's physical properties are unknown so it's propensity to craze is also unknown. I'm not saying the material is extruded or anything else, I don't know - but it is a question mark. Since there is assumably little/no other crazing on the tank, I'm assuming it's good material but am not absolutely certain.

Heat from pump: I think heat is a factor as it is a stressor, simply put. Probably at the borderline of what is a tolerable working temp for the material. Any heat spikes would not be helping any.

Pump replacement on a crazed area: The affected area had some initial crazing. This was discovered and then the pump replaced in the same spot. It is far easier to aggravate an existing crazing problem than to start a new one since the area already has some fractures.

Quick explanation:
You cannot craze acrylic strictly from heat alone, you simply can't do it in a realistic fashion. If you apply heat to plain ol' acrylic, it will deform, soften, become pliable, bubble, fry, melt, then self ignite, but will not craze. We've all seen bowfront tanks and other thermoformed acrylic, it is heated to ~300F and yet doesn't craze. But, place the heat source on an area of acrylic that is already being pushed to it's potential and you can get the initial crazing. Replace the pump in the same spot for another year or so and the crazing problem grows to what it is now. There may be other contributing factors as well.

FWIW, this is just my opinion after reading as much of this as I could and saw there was some misinformation going around and thought I'd try to provide some insight.

Hope all is well,
James

[sherm71tank]

Originally posted by Acrylics

Pump replacement on a crazed area: The affected area had some initial crazing. This was discovered and then the pump replaced in the same spot. It is far easier to aggravate an existing crazing problem than to start a new one since the area already has some fractures.

That's not the way I saw it happen. Jonathan please correct me if I'm wrong.

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by Acrylics
Tank material: the tank was made many yrs ago by a company that is long defunct so the material used can never be known, therefore it's physical properties are unknown so it's propensity to craze is also unknown. I'm not saying the material is extruded or anything else, I don't know - but it is a question mark. Since there is assumably little/no other crazing on the tank, I'm assuming it's good material but am not absolutely certain.

Tank is cast acrylic. Extruded would never have been able to stand the pressure.

Pump replacement on a crazed area: The affected area had some initial crazing. This was discovered and then the pump replaced in the same spot. It is far easier to aggravate an existing crazing problem than to start a new one since the area already has some fractures.

This is simply not true. Don't believe everything you hear from interested parties. I would NEVER put a pump back on a previously crazed area. That would be seriously stupid.

I am not putting out any misinformation James. And BTW James, without the Vortechs, the tank would be fine.

[sherm71tank]

Heh, posts of that nature grow my list of vendors I hesitate to do business with. It's not in good taste to say the least.

[Acrylics]

If that's not the case Jonathan, I do apologize. I took that info from you on page 37 of the last part of this thread:
"And BTW, all the pumps crazed the tank in the early days because they were running hot. That was a superficial situation which I turned the other cheek to, and turned down the pumps so that they wouldn't operate above 130F."
You hadn't mentioned anything about moving them you simply stated that you turned down the pumps.

I wasn't referring to you Jonathan putting out any misinformation at all, but others have. Vortechs being acrylic tank killers and the like.

I do not listen to "interested parties" when it comes to my trade. No one influences my thoughts or opinions on this stuff, *especially* someone who might have an agenda. I sincerely hope you believe that.

I have no doubt that the tank would be okay without the Vortechs, just that they are not the sole causative factor of the crazing, that's all.

James

[mrcrab]

Originally posted by sherm71tank
Heh, posts of that nature grow my list of vendors I hesitate to do business with. It's not in good taste to say the least.

Agreed. James even stated he didn't know all the facts but insisted on commenting. If anything he should have said something to the ecotech guys so they could chime in.

[Acrylics]

Sherm71tank & mrcrab,

I instisted on nothing, I was invited to do so by Jonathan:

by jnarowe
It is your personal experience that is most important in this discussion IMO. You understand the material in this application better than anyone else I could think of.

I have simply given my opinion. I worked from the statements made in this thread and on what I know of the tank. I knew the tank long before Jonathan ever saw the tank for the first time so I do know some of it's history. I do think the pumps are the "straw that broke the camel's back", but simply not the sole causative factor.

Originally posted by mrcrab
If anything he should have said something to the ecotech guys so they could chime in.

I have.

Hope all is well,
James

Edit: spelling

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by Acrylics
If that's not the case Jonathan, I do apologize. I took that info from you on page 37 of the last part of this thread:
"And BTW, all the pumps crazed the tank in the early days because they were running hot. That was a superficial situation which I turned the other cheek to, and turned down the pumps so that they wouldn't operate above 130F."
You hadn't mentioned anything about moving them you simply stated that you turned down the pumps.

I wasn't referring to you Jonathan putting out any misinformation at all, but others have. Vortechs being acrylic tank killers and the like.

I do not listen to "interested parties" when it comes to my trade. No one influences my thoughts or opinions on this stuff, *especially* someone who might have an agenda. I sincerely hope you believe that.

I have no doubt that the tank would be okay without the Vortechs, just that they are not the sole causative factor of the crazing, that's all.

James

James, no one is saying that Vortechs are "tank killers", but what i sbeing said is that they operate at a temp. too close to the working temperature of acrylic under stress.

And please don't make assumptions about what I have or have not done. I have been working with Eco-Tech for about 18 months trying to get these pumps to operate at a decent temperature. I have spent countless hours on this, sent pumps to them so many times I cannot remember how many, and because I didn't write that I moved them is no reason to assume that I didn't.

There have been quite a few people making assumptions about my situation based on their own experience with the pumps, and none of that really comes to terms with what I am experiencing.

[lamarine23]

Come on guys....can't we discuss the topic without just jumping to the conclusion that the vortechs are the sole contributers to this issue? You have an expert stating his professional opinion, which falls in line with everything I and many others have stated and that there was many factors not just the pump. Does anybody want to rebut the facts that the tank was under built? And that alone can cause serious stress on the aquarium (I'm not say it was the sole cause)? Please don't take that personal as you did not build the tank nor may have known that it was built under specs.

Jesse

[jnarowe]

Jesse, If I had closed loops, would the tank have crazed? Are you sure that tank is under built? If the Voretchs operated at less than 120F, would we be having this discussion at all?