Negative effect of phosphate reactor on LPS?

Cozen89 · #1 12/09/2007, 06:55 AM

I just recently added a phosphate reactor to my system which has phosphate pads cut to fit and denitrator media in it. I did this because bubble and hair algae was starting to grow in my tank.

Now my LPS looks horrible and appears to be slowly dying. Skeleton is starting to show. This includes acans, favias, and chalices.

Funny thing is my SPS and zoos seem unaffected and even happier than ever.

Does anyone know what kind of negative effect the phos reactor could be having on my LPS and what should I do to reverse it's effects? I stopped running it after a week. Should I do a major water change now?

Underwaterparadise · #2 12/09/2007, 04:45 PM

If you had high levels of Phosphate and Nitrate and the Reactor pulled them out too quickly then the corals have been shocked. IMO water changes are the best way to lower them. I would just test all water Param. and hope for the best. You can try fragging and dipping as well to rinse off the dead tissue.

Shawnts106 · #3 12/09/2007, 09:11 PM

Huh... Did you rinse the media VERY VERY well in freshwater, then pull about 5 or 10 gallons of RODI water through the reactor with the Media in it to furthur purify it, then put it on the tank and pull another 5 to 10 gallons of TANK water through the reactor, dumping what is comming out to further remove dust and to remove freshwater?

these three steps normaly insures that you wont have any media dust being dumped into the tank,... The dust could have bothered your LPS.. but would would have seen problems with your fish as well..

It would be rare for it to ONLY affect the LPS...

I agree with the post above, it was probably pulling too much out too quickly.

just feed them and try to stabilize the tank..
HOW much media did you use? what size tank are we dealing with here?

what brand media too.

Shawnts106 · #4 12/09/2007, 09:11 PM

Huh... Did you rinse the media VERY VERY well in freshwater, then pull about 5 or 10 gallons of RODI water through the reactor with the Media in it to furthur purify it, then put it on the tank and pull another 5 to 10 gallons of TANK water through the reactor, dumping what is comming out to further remove dust and to remove freshwater?

these three steps normaly insures that you wont have any media dust being dumped into the tank,... The dust could have bothered your LPS.. but would would have seen problems with your fish as well..

It would be rare for it to ONLY affect the LPS...

I agree with the post above, it was probably pulling too much out too quickly.

just feed them and try to stabilize the tank..
HOW much media did you use? what size tank are we dealing with here?

what brand media too.

Cozen89 · #5 12/10/2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shawnts106
Huh... Did you rinse the media VERY VERY well in freshwater, then pull about 5 or 10 gallons of RODI water through the reactor with the Media in it to furthur purify it, then put it on the tank and pull another 5 to 10 gallons of TANK water through the reactor, dumping what is comming out to further remove dust and to remove freshwater?

these three steps normaly insures that you wont have any media dust being dumped into the tank,... The dust could have bothered your LPS.. but would would have seen problems with your fish as well..

It would be rare for it to ONLY affect the LPS...

I agree with the post above, it was probably pulling too much out too quickly.

just feed them and try to stabilize the tank..
HOW much media did you use? what size tank are we dealing with here?

what brand media too.

I did rinse the media well, but I didn't do it to the extent you mentioned. I didn't know I would have to do it that much. I probably should've posted about it on here before acting.

As for pulling it out too quickly, that might be the case. But even prior to adding the reactor, my test kits never really detected any phosphates and nitrates were always near undetectable. But I did have bubble algae possibly absorbing it.

Also isn't it weird how it is only my LPS and all my zoos and SPS are doing good.

As for the denitrator media, I'm using Seachem and the phos pads are just cheapo phos pads that I've used in the past with no ill effects.

I'll be getting my new RO filters in tomorrow, so I'll do a water change. How big should I do? I have a 75 gallon tank and a 30 gallon sump. Probably around 90gallons not factoring in all the liverock taking up space.

Cozen89 · #6 12/10/2007, 03:05 AM

Would you recommend iodine dipping my LPS? And if so, for how long?

RokleM · #7 12/10/2007, 09:33 AM

Check your alk if you haven't already. A downside of phosphate remover is a potential drop in alkalinity.

vessxpress1 · #8 12/10/2007, 12:58 PM

That's the first thing I thought of too. I have a phosban reactor on my tank and I also have a RK 2 hooked up with the pH probe.

When I add new media, I rinse a bag of matrix carbon 3 seperate times in RO water and then rinse a bag of Rowaphos 3 times in RO water, and then I add it to the reactor. That seems to be enough rinsing. (Replace once a month)

The first night I run the new media, there's a pretty significant drop in pH (which could be from the drop in alk). My pH drops every night naturally, but it's a lot worse after I've added the new media. By the next day it's back to normal.

Quote:

Originally posted by RokleM
Check your alk if you haven't already. A downside of phosphate remover is a potential drop in alkalinity.

elegance coral · #9 12/10/2007, 07:39 PM

In my opinion, all filter media no matter what it was designed to remove, removes some trace elements along with it. LPS corals seem to be highly dependant on these trace elements. In my experience LPS corals can react negatively if to much filter media is used, even when all the normal parameters are within acceptable range. A simple water change is normally enough to replenish these trace elements and fix the problem. If it were my system I would reduce the amount of media in the reactor. Do you dose Kalk? Kalk has the ability to precipitate phosphate from the system reducing your dependence on phosphate removing media.

If your corals are showing signs of tissue damage, an iodine dip may help reduce the odds of an infection. You can pick up an Iodine dip for corals at your LFS and fallow the directions.

Cozen89 · #10 12/10/2007, 10:17 PM

I do dose Kalkwasser via a DIY kalk reactor. I will probably do a 15 gallon water change and try to get things back to normal. In a month or so I will try the phos reactor again but start with 1/3 the media I have in it now and slowly work up.

Underwaterparadise · #11 12/11/2007, 06:05 PM

If you are getting no Phosphate readings and have no Algea problems why are you even bothering to run the Reactor? Just use the reactor for carbon and only run phosphate media when needed. Also a standard 3" reactor should be only filled about 1/4 of the way with media IMO.

RokleM · #12 12/11/2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Underwaterparadise
If you are getting no Phosphate readings and have no Algea problems why are you even bothering to run the Reactor? Just use the reactor for carbon and only run phosphate media when needed. Also a standard 3" reactor should be only filled about 1/4 of the way with media IMO.

Well there are a couple of things wrong with this in my opinion.

As for readings, there are few at all accurate, Hanna being the only really good solution I've found. The Elos was an OK test for a general idea. If you don't run it but know you've had phosphate issues, phosphate will build up in the system. At the point where you start to have issues and need to use it, you're then fighting a current problem as well as getting all of the phosphate back out of the system that has leeched into the rockwork and such. I'd personally rather stay proactive than fighting the issue that will occur later. It's like saying, don't change your oil, just fix your engine when it dies

That being said, many people are probably too aggressive with the media... running more than they need and/or in systems where phosphate is not as important and controlled by other means.

As for the media and reactor, there is no way to suggest 1/4 or anything else. It depends on the media (as there are many different types and doses that need to be used), the amount of phosphate in the system currently that might need to be removed due to not running a reactor in the past, rate of phosphate addition, rate of removal, etc.

Underwaterparadise · #13 12/11/2007, 10:24 PM

1/4 full is a good rule of thumb to start with that will keep you out of trouble for the most part. I use ROWA if I use anything and IMO it is the best one there is!

I like to keep my tank clean the natural way by doing water changes so I have no issues with Phosphate or Algea unless I wait too long to change my RO filters.

My moto is water changes and more water changes!!

Cozen89 · #14 12/12/2007, 01:26 AM

The thing is I was having small out breaks of hair and bubble algae. That's why I added the phos reactor. But after a week of running it, my LPs started looking bad so I turned the reactor off. The hair algae that was starting to grow started to die off.

I probably did use too much media in the reactor. After I get things back on track I will try it again with much less.

I was thinking of running carbon, phosphate media, and denitrator media in it. Is this too much if I only do like 1/5 the height of the chamber of each media?

Also I do water changes quite frequently. At least once a week, sometimes 3 changes in 2 weeks. Maybe I'm doing them too often?

Either way I did another water change today to try and help the LPS out incase any media dust got in to the tank.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks for all the help so far.

RokleM · #15 12/12/2007, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Underwaterparadise
1/4 full is a good rule of thumb to start with that will keep you out of trouble for the most part. I use ROWA if I use anything and IMO it is the best one there is!

1/4 full no, 1/4 the recommended media yes. You could have a 3x2" reactor or a 6x12"

Quote:

Originally posted by Cozen89
I was thinking of running carbon, phosphate media, and denitrator media in it. Is this too much if I only do like 1/5 the height of the chamber of each media?

The problem is, you have multiple types of media that require different flows. Carbon can take very high flow (which is best), but not enough for it to tumble. Phos material is very fine, and needs a pretty low flow to maintain. You can indeed put them in the same canister (I did for a while), with the phos material in a bag. It will harden a little more quickly, but would save you from buying another reactor. I don't have experience w/ denitrator to comment.

Cozen89 · #16 12/13/2007, 02:30 AM

Can I put them in the same canister without one being in a bag? The canister has a rod going down the middle making it harder to put a bag in there. I guess it's not impossible. Maybe I can separate them with a pad?

also if I were to use all 3, what order do you think I should place them in?

water in
phos
denitrator
carbon
water out