New Nitrate Removal Korallin Sulfur-Based BioDenitrator - Page 3

benf · #51 07/16/2005, 07:01 AM

I have to wonder if i would be better off upgrading the skimmer to help with my nitrate problem. I have an EuroReef now, but may go with a bigger and the new recirculation style.

Lunchbucket · #52 07/16/2005, 07:43 AM

i agree w/ thereefmaster. nitrates shouldn't be a problem if everything is in balance. if it isn't figure out why and fix it through skimming, feedings, stocking, etc

Lunchbucket

macro · #53 07/16/2005, 07:43 AM

very easy diy but were can u get the sulphur ?
and i bet it doesnt need to be a c.reactor style filter the way they say it works is just like bio balls in a wet dry.

kreef · #54 07/16/2005, 10:49 AM

ReefAddict1.
o.k. Dont worry about air bubbles in the reactor as the bacteria do need a tiny amount of oxygen to thrive. NO oxygen = hydrogen sulphide rotten egg smell,to much oxygen = no anaerobic bacteria. As for coil denitrator ect i tried them all,they dont work,this unit works.
Live rock,algae refugium all help, but lots of people dont /cant run these.

kreef.

scuzy · #55 07/21/2005, 10:47 AM

any recent updates on this denitrator ?

fishman805 · #56 07/21/2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kreef
ReefAddict1.
o.k. Dont worry about air bubbles in the reactor as the bacteria do need a tiny amount of oxygen to thrive. NO oxygen = hydrogen sulphide rotten egg smell,to much oxygen = no anaerobic bacteria.
kreef.

Sorry to disagree here but my understanding of this whole de-nitrator gadget is to avoid O2 from being present "at all " ... Did I miss something..??

kreef · #57 07/21/2005, 12:36 PM

Fishman. The type of bacteria that use nitrates as i said need a tiny amount of oxygen. that is why coil and other types dont work properly, it is just to fiddly. as an example in a dsb the nitrate bacteria live in the middle layer where conditions are ideal in oxygen content.

kreef.

scuzy · #58 07/21/2005, 12:38 PM

so in theory that with this thing runnign and a good skimmer and refugium will cut down on changing water ? I can instead change water once ever 2 months compare to monthly/bi weekly?

kreef · #59 07/21/2005, 12:49 PM

In theory yes, but then there are all the elements in seawater that maybe need replenishing that we cant test for.

kreef.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #60 07/21/2005, 01:09 PM

One concern with a sulfur denitrator is depleted alkalinity from the acid produced. Sure, it might help to pass it over CaCO3 from an alkalinity perspective, but then the calcium that is also released from the CaCO3 will rise relative to alkalinity.

Sulfate buildup over time is also a possibility, especially if the sulfur reactions take up more than nitrate (like direct oxygen conversion of sulfur to sulfate).

fishman805 · #61 07/21/2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
One concern with a sulfur denitrator is depleted alkalinity from the acid produced. Sure, it might help to pass it over CaCO3 from an alkalinity perspective, but then the calcium that is also released from the CaCO3 will rise relative to alkalinity.

Sulfate buildup over time is also a possibility, especially if the sulfur reactions take up more than nitrate (like direct oxygen conversion of sulfur to sulfate).

Wasn't that one of the concerns that the fella who started this experiment had..?? I believe he also stated that sulfate buildup really did not occure in any quantity to be detrimental to the tank inhabitants..... But it's been a while since I read the artical ....

scuzy · #62 07/21/2005, 01:22 PM

well with the water change say once every month/2months will remove some of the buildup compare to nitrate growth right?

onthefly · #63 07/21/2005, 02:04 PM

Coils do work!!!!

None of these silver bullet gadgets are not made by Ronco, so forget the "set it and forget it" mentality. There are always adjustments and possible side effects.......ala Phosban reactors!

For coils, you have to find the right flow rate for your size of coil (i.e. shorter coil=slower flow, longer coil=faster flow). If you have the wrong flow rate, either nothing will happen or worst, H2S could be released.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #64 07/21/2005, 04:39 PM

Wasn't that one of the concerns that the fella who started this experiment had..?? I believe he also stated that sulfate buildup really did not occure in any quantity to be detrimental to the tank inhabitants..... But it's been a while since I read the artical ....

Which experiment?

fishman805 · #65 07/21/2005, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Wasn't that one of the concerns that the fella who started this experiment had..?? I believe he also stated that sulfate buildup really did not occure in any quantity to be detrimental to the tank inhabitants..... But it's been a while since I read the artical ....

Which experiment?

Look at Agu's post on the first page of this thread.... He's posted a link to what I'm talking about....

Randy Holmes-Farley · #66 07/21/2005, 06:22 PM

That article only says that they didn't 'see' any problems with their particular organisms, not that sulfate was actually measured, nor that it might not happen on other systems with different nitrate loads or organisms.

I'll admit, however, that I do not know what sulfate levels become problematic to any marine organism, and I do not generally worry too much about sulfate rising. It is the lowering of alkalinity that concerns me more. That isn't a concern for folks using independent calcium and alkalinity additions, but can upset the balance for folks using otherwise balanced systems (CaCO3/CO2 reactors, limewater, two part systems, etc.)

Agu · #67 07/21/2005, 06:42 PM

Randy,

From the information I've gathered sulpher denitrators are best for FO tanks. Esp those with carnivores and messy eaters. Are the possible chemical reactions consistant with that observation ?

I've also deduced that reef tanks with already low organics won't gain much from the use of a sulpher denitrator. Correct or a faulty conclusion ?

fishman805 · #68 07/21/2005, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
That article only says that they didn't 'see' any problems with their particular organisms, not that sulfate was actually measured, nor that it might not happen on other systems with different nitrate loads or organisms.

I'll admit, however, that I do not know what sulfate levels become problematic to any marine organism, and I do not generally worry too much about sulfate rising. It is the lowering of alkalinity that concerns me more. That isn't a concern for folks using independent calcium and alkalinity additions, but can upset the balance for folks using otherwise balanced systems (CaCO3/CO2 reactors, limewater, two part systems, etc.)

The "acid effect" was disconcerting to me as well.... I'd rather do partial water changes and use standard common sense husbandry pratices than risking having to play chemist with my reef..... That's why I never messed with buffers and such in FW... Once you start you can't stop... And I know that SW is different in a way... But aside from calc levels, there's really not much you can't cure with a good old water change and a good skimmer...

Randy Holmes-Farley · #69 07/21/2005, 06:57 PM

From the information I've gathered sulpher denitrators are best for FO tanks. Esp those with carnivores and messy eaters. Are the possible chemical reactions consistant with that observation ?

That would make sense, since alkalinity maintenance is not as much of a concern and is not usually tied to calcium additions, nitrates are more likely to be formed, and methods that remove phosphate and nitrate together (like macroalgae) may be less likely to be used.

I've also deduced that reef tanks with already low organics won't gain much from the use of a sulpher denitrator. Correct or a faulty conclusion ?

I don't really know how much demand for organics those bacteria have. The reaction with the sulfur itself doesn't require them, at least as far as I understand, but they may need organics as a carbon source (instead of the alternatives such as bicarbonate).

saraiva · #70 07/25/2005, 08:08 AM

What kind of sulfur is used, powder or granulate?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #71 07/25/2005, 09:45 AM

I do not know what particle size most users employ, but if it is too fine it will get loose into the tank.

kreef · #72 07/25/2005, 01:32 PM

Neither really. There called sulphur beads, probably desighned for the use of, like some carbons are pelletized.

kreef.

ReefAddict1 · #73 07/26/2005, 12:45 AM

It's been a week since I installed my unit and it seems to be working fine. I plan to take another nitrate test reading tomorrow and every week thereafter to monitor progress.

One slightly annoying thing I noticed is it gradually collects a small pocket of air inside the unit every two days. Luckily, it's easy to open the vent valve at the top which allows the air to escape and the pump to pull in more water from the sump. It takes about a minute to fill back up to the top before I close the valve. Not sure if this is normal / typical nor am I sure where the air / gas is coming from.

I do have the intake water line coming from my sump which has a waterline about 2-3 inches above the Korallin cannister. It never seems to lose water suction to the cannister, but I wonder if there isn't enough liquid going in ratio to the drip rate going out. I could place the intake line from the main display tank above the sump for some extra gravity, but it won't look as clean and hidden.

kreef · #74 07/26/2005, 01:22 PM

It could be that the media is still holding air, or microbubbles are getting in through the intake, if the driprate isn.t stopping it should be alright.

kreef.

scuzy · #75 07/26/2005, 01:24 PM

i just installed my unit last night. Goign to take a reading of my params tonight and then again in a week or so to see the difference