Hypothetical Plumbing Question

[ReefTECK]

As you will see below, this is the plan, the goal would be to create strong currents using the main return pump without necessarily dragging tons of water through the sump, keep relatively lower turnover rates.

Heres the design, a closed loop siphon is pulled over the top of the tank and fed to a venturi outlet in the pumps line rather than the intake. A swing check valve is used to prevent flooding in case siphon does not break at designated point.

Could this work? Physical flaws or drawbacks I'm not considering? Seems terribly efficient if it actually works the way I think it would.



Hope you guys don't mind kick the ball around with me here, whatta ya think?

andy

[Snowboarda42]

Skip the siphon break line, and just do something a little more simple. either drill 2 holes on opposite sides of the return line, just below the water surface. Or, even better, make your return line only go below the water surface <1". That way you'll only drain your tank <1" and you won't worry about coralline and snails plugging your siphon holes. Get rid of the check valve too, you're wasting your money otherwise.

[flyyyguy]

i dont think it will work no matter how you slice it. the way you have it in your original drawing , it will not suck water out of the tank......it will just push water into the tank

the way the edited drawing is is a serious waste of a OM 4 way.

you dont need to move any more water through your sump that you skimmer can process or you are intenionally setting up your system to be sending lots of "dirty" unskimmed wter back to the tank.

a closed loop and your sump return need to be seperate entities entirely.

[NATIVEVAMAN]

Unless a sump has an extremly large drain line it will not provide enough water for a closed loop or manifold system.I have seen where additional overflows have been added to a tank to provide water to a closed loop and they always cause massive micro bubble output.The only way to make a closed loop work efficiently is to add a bulkhead dead center in the back of the tank to feed the pump.The use of sweeps and "street L's" will help to prevent cavitation.

[ReefTECK]

Okay, okay, thank you for your responses, I've taken most of what has been said into consideration. Again the whole point of this idea is to use one single return pump for sump and water recirculation, as to reduce clutter, maybe even be a little more economical.

The designs purpose is to yes, slow down the flow rate through the sump to give the skimmer adequate time with the water, but at the same time provide a lot of flow through the OM4.

I've addressed some of those issues in this plan, still left the check valve for engineering considerations, but I think keeping the siphon line just a short inch below waterline works also, good idea, that will be implemented as well.

[LobsterOfJustice]

I think its a good idea, but I also think you might end up overflow the sump. You would have to be very careful about the plumbing sizes. The whole reason the sump-overflow-return thing works is because the drain automatically matches the return rate. Your messing with these and you might end up throwing it out of balance.

Or, it might work. I can't see it adding a significant amount of flow though. Make sure to add gate valves on both intakes so you can fine tune how much water is coming from each source.

[A.T.T.R]

dumb idea..
your using a venturi therefor adding resistance there for slowing water flow over all while sucking in a tiny bit

venturis work off pressure differentials and sucking water in. you WILL NOT EVER have more water being sucked throu the venturi


you are better going with an eductor this works using a pressure pump and the fact that water moves water


kinda like air moves air...

hold a newspaper bag to your mouth and try to blow it up

now hold it a foot away and blow again.. see???

[LobsterOfJustice]

Yeah actually I was goingto mention eductors as well (I apparently forgot).

They are nozzle-type attachments that go on the outlet of your tubing. However, I think you already need to have somewhat decent flow for them to work, and a pressure rated pump.

[Playa-1]

Just get yourself a small energy efficient return pump for the sump. Then use your big pump for a closed loop. I think you will be much happier with the results and the micro bubble situation.

I think your idea is off base and is going to create lots of problems for yourself.

[Playa-1]

Ooops
Please delete

[szwab]

the check valve will also give you a false sense of security it may work fine for a while but in the marine enviroment it's not a question of if but when it fails you may have a big mess. I would do as mentiopned before separate your CL from the return and drain of the tank.

[datablitz]

why not just leave the returns close to the surface of the water and not worry about it? or just drill a siphon break in each return

[ReefTECK]

Originally posted by Playa-1
Just get yourself a small energy efficient return pump for the sump. Then use your big pump for a closed loop.

Great feed back guys, and I appreciate your primitive instincts to just go with two pumps. Again this isn't a project I'm currently working on and am building, but rather just something I'm toying around with. The idea is to reduce clutter, and yeah maybe be a little more energy efficient.

Eductor pumps might be a good idea, I have considered that, but if it's siphoning water from the top of the tank down the gravity feed shouldn't interrupt the feed into the inlet of the pump. IDK.

In any case, I'm going to find out, I've got an OM-4 on order, I probably wont use it for another year realistically, but I'm collecting parts for a 220 and I've got everything else I need to experiment with this idea.

Anybody gotta good link for eductor intakes?

Keep the ideas rolling in, even the pessimistic ones, I'll just keep going till I give it a try. I've got a hell of a concept in my minds eye for this next tank. It's going to be less focused on creating a coral garden as recreating an environment. I'll keep you posted.

ltz,
andy

BTW- good call on the swing check eventually failing, I can totally see that happening, none-the-less the point of this exercise is to inspire creativity, I think I'll try to find a better idea on that and keep rollin!

[szwab]

not real familiar withthe skimmer but if it's not a pump fed skimmer ie. venturi just branch off from your tank drain (what I have done) this way it is independant from the drain and flow is regulated by a gate valve.