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  #26  
Old 08/04/2006, 11:29 AM
LRS078 LRS078 is offline
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I mean zero disrespect to LFS or online fish sites whatsoever....but no matter HOW good a deal you get on aragamax or similar it is still in the $20-$25 a 30lb bag range. There is no way they can compete with $2-$5 a bag at a hardware store. I got the information online/did all the research here on this board and WWM, and I actually do quite a bit to support my favorite LFS....just ask em. I'll be happy to plug them but I believe that is not permitted on here so I'll have to stay mum. To buy some supplies there vs online, they get the nod. To increase the cost of a project by an order of magnitude is something else. I am sure they would rather I spend the money I save on fish and whatnot....but their honesty/no BS is a large part of why I like them.

This is a case of completely different products (at least from a marketing standpoint) made of the same essential ingredient. Since we are after only the ingredient itself its like pricing hikari versus fresh market grocery seafood by weight. Both are good stuff but its not apples to apples on price.
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  #27  
Old 08/04/2006, 08:45 PM
krazyplace krazyplace is offline
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My right-of-passage is complete (again)... Read all 40+ pages.

This is a good read and well worth the many hours it took. A quick word of advice to anyone who hasn't read it from the beginning... do it! Anthony covers pretty much everything you need to know in his early dialog.

Thanks to everyone who spent the time to read/attribute to this thread. I'm sure I'll have as good results as the rest of you. I am in the process of rebuilding (due to relocation) and I’m going to do the RDSB instead of my refugium.
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  #28  
Old 08/05/2006, 06:34 AM
Atomahawk Atomahawk is offline
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LRS078 , Sorry if you had the impression I was pointing a finger at you.
It just happened that my comment was after repleying to something you asked.

It was meant as a general comment about all products that we use in our hobby. I know there are very good replacement items that are a lot less expensive. I can certainly understand wanting to save 50 - 90 % on the cost of any given item. I just read a lot of post were people try and cut so many corners on every little item and I have to ask myself why they go to such lenghts for a 10 to 20% savings and lock out their LFS. I enjoy going to my favorite fish stores and try my best to support them whenever possible. The people I deal with have always tried to save me money whenever possible, sometimes they are a little more expensive than online vendors or stores that sell like products, but I would rather give my money to the guy that actually makes a living from and supports my hobby instead of saving 20%.

My comment was just a little heads up to those that seem to go out of there way, for a a few bucks saved. A good example would be going to Petsmart or Wallmart to purchase a pump that is sold for 20% less than at your LFS. Sure you could do it, but is it a good idea? I guess that's something everyone needs to ask themselves and is a personal choice.
  #29  
Old 08/05/2006, 07:20 AM
DgenR8 DgenR8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Atomahawk
LRS078 , Sorry if you had the impression I was pointing a finger at you.
It just happened that my comment was after repleying to something you asked.

It was meant as a general comment about all products that we use in our hobby. I know there are very good replacement items that are a lot less expensive. I can certainly understand wanting to save 50 - 90 % on the cost of any given item. I just read a lot of post were people try and cut so many corners on every little item and I have to ask myself why they go to such lenghts for a 10 to 20% savings and lock out their LFS. I enjoy going to my favorite fish stores and try my best to support them whenever possible. The people I deal with have always tried to save me money whenever possible, sometimes they are a little more expensive than online vendors or stores that sell like products, but I would rather give my money to the guy that actually makes a living from and supports my hobby instead of saving 20%.

My comment was just a little heads up to those that seem to go out of there way, for a a few bucks saved. A good example would be going to Petsmart or Wallmart to purchase a pump that is sold for 20% less than at your LFS. Sure you could do it, but is it a good idea? I guess that's something everyone needs to ask themselves and is a personal choice.

I am all for supporting your LFS, but this thread is about a DSB in a bucket, and it's already plenty long. Let's not crowd it further with subjects that belong in their own thread.
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I'm pretty sure it's Mike's fault.....
  #30  
Old 08/05/2006, 09:20 AM
Spuds725 Spuds725 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Spuds, shall I repeat myself again? You seem to want to convince me of something I already know.

I said "Of course if you can get hte bucket to deform then a bulkhead would work... that certainly does not make what I said incorrect. Traditional bulkheads don't work well on curved surfaces."

Just because you got your bucket to "deform" and become flat does not mean that bulkheads work on curved surfaces (which you are infering by repeating your statement). You also seemed to have a problem with the concept of a uniseal and how they work (they don't need a "round" hole")

So for the sake of helping people instead of giving them partial information:

TRADITIONAL BULKHEADS DO NOT WORK WELL ON CURVED SURFACES. UNISEALS WORK VERY WELL ON CURVED SURFACES.

I am not sure how much clearer it could be. Once again, you tightened a bulkhead down and deformed the bucket so that it has a flat area. The bulkhead then sealed. I am glad you have no leaks... but that certainly does not discount anything I have said, nor does it make traditional bulkheads suitable for curved surfaces.
Bean...

Relax.... I have read many of your posts here and I do have alot of respect for your opinions and your base of knowledge in this hobby.

I am not disagreeing with you-- but both will work on a bucket-- unless the bucket is curved and made out of a rigid and brittle material.

I qualified my original statement about the uniseals in general that I have never cut my own hole for a uniseal (I've used them on precut --precision cut--very round holes and they sealed just fine)--- so I expect the reader of my post to take my lack of experience with uniseals into account...

if you say the hole doesn't need to be very round then I completely believe you and cheerfully retract my statement.... (about the roundness of the holes being critical for them to seal properly)

That being said-- bulkheads will seal and not leak when used on a plastic bucket--- either bulkheads or uniseals can be used.

If anyone is worried about using a bulkhead on a curved bucket-- you can use a square bucket.... -- a square bucket is usually a better utilizer of space anyway...



I think we are getting a little hung up on this part of the bucket DSB discussion....

@LRS078

I think that should be a good enough size...

I ran a bucket DSB for 4 months but I don't think it was big enough (5 gallon bucket with 50 pounds of sand) on a 135 gallon lightly stocked tank.... my trates still were rising just slower-- since then I've added a 29 gallon fuge and macro (chaeto and some grape caulerpa) lighted 18 hours per day and the trates are dropping real fast--- I'm certain the bucket DSBs work, just need to use a big enough volume on your system.... my bucket DSB is still connected to my system but I plan on making it bigger (using a 15 gallon glass tank with about 125-150 pounds of sand)
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Last edited by Spuds725; 08/05/2006 at 09:37 AM.
  #31  
Old 08/05/2006, 09:29 AM
DgenR8 DgenR8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spuds725


I think we are getting a little hung up on this part of the bucket DSB discussion....

I agree, and I think we all have enough information at this point to make our own (well informed) decision on whether to go with bulkheads or uniseals.
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"The significant problems we face cannot be solved

at the same level of thinking we were at when we

created them." Albert Einstein




I'm pretty sure it's Mike's fault.....
  #32  
Old 08/05/2006, 10:42 AM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
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I am not sure anybody has any real numbers on just how much they help. Most people seem to implement them in conjunction with other measures while trying to battle a problem. It may be that the RDSB in a bucket is just one tool that helps in the battle and in a given situation is simply not enough to fix the problem, as is the case with a fuge or any other tool.

Mine is not online yet. I am just finishing a large skimmer and don't want to put another pump (albiet small) online for a few months. I have a significant other that tracks the electric bill my the milliwatt hour!
  #33  
Old 08/05/2006, 01:42 PM
LRS078 LRS078 is offline
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Bean....re the SO that tracks by the milliwat hour....swap the lightbulbs in one room for slightly lower wattage ones and do the pump. They don't usually notice that....j/k
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  #34  
Old 08/07/2006, 11:27 AM
EnderG60 EnderG60 is offline
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Welp I just setup my 6 gallon salt bucket with some sand and its outside running for a bit to test for leaks and rinse the sand a bit more. Gonna run it on my nano to cycle it(just in case something goes wrong) and then see what it does on my 58g. If all goes well Ill have to build something a bit nicer then a bucket to house it since my stand is full
  #35  
Old 08/07/2006, 06:27 PM
Petstorejunkie Petstorejunkie is offline
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Anyone on this board know a good source for aragonite sand in the southeast/atlanta ga area? Still can't find any. Have talked to a couple LFS's re: a bulk order but no hard figures yet. May have to use mostly silica sand w' a aragonite bit on top for buffering. Just how much do you lose going silica vs aragonite? First hand experiences please....

Thx
  #36  
Old 08/08/2006, 12:02 AM
fantastic4 fantastic4 is offline
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please post your results,

starting nitrate
time since dsb implemented
current nitrate
size of tank
size of dsb
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  #37  
Old 08/11/2006, 02:29 AM
Laakmann Laakmann is offline
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that would be awsome if someone could do that^^^^

im starting a 29gallon half filled with sand so 9-10" with the top being an edition to my 29 g refugium, just without lights so no microalgae but hopefully somemore space for pods.
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  #38  
Old 08/11/2006, 04:50 PM
antonsemrad antonsemrad is offline
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Sorry I have not read all of this thread, but has anyone buried some organic matter (preferably low in p04) down deep in the sand? If I understand it right it is the reduction of dissolved organic matter, without oxygen that causes the reduction of nitrates. So in tanks with low DOM (heavy skimming) this process would take longer. It also occurred to me that the RDSB would aslo make a great cheto fuge by adding a cheap flood light. The cheto would take up P04 and provide oxygen. However once the nitrates got down to "0" it would not grow so well. Then nitrates would have to be added (magine that!) to provide the P04 uptake. But then this wouldn't be so novel. Would it? I do beleve that Randy Holmes-Farley utilizes this strategy. But anyway how about burying some shrimp down deep?
  #39  
Old 08/13/2006, 12:47 PM
christian1966 christian1966 is offline
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It's my understanding that you only want sand in the RSDB. You are not trying to make it a place to grow macro or other live inhabitants. You want good water flow so no detritus settles in the sand. Correct?
  #40  
Old 08/13/2006, 10:40 PM
nyvp nyvp is offline
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Is this the stuff we are trying to buy?
  #41  
Old 08/14/2006, 02:08 PM
EnderG60 EnderG60 is offline
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Ok Bucket has been installed

System specs
58g, 80lbs live rock 40lbs live sand
Fuge with 40+ lbs live rock, 20lbs crushed coral big clump of cheato
Bucket is a 7g kent salt bucket filled to 6" of the top with crushed shell sand, pump is a Maxi jet 1200 flowing through a phosphate/carbon reactor. Total flow is about 100 gph.

Bucket was run on a seperate system for one week to test everything out prior to install on this system.

Current Nitrates are 30, I will check again weekly.
  #42  
Old 08/16/2006, 07:21 AM
caseyjones caseyjones is offline
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Does anyone have any recommendations on how many buckets it will take to control nitrates on a 3,000 gallon system? Also, will this work on freshwater?
  #43  
Old 08/16/2006, 07:33 AM
nyvp nyvp is offline
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casey find a used 55 - 75 tank and use that
  #44  
Old 08/16/2006, 08:52 AM
caseyjones caseyjones is offline
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thank you NYVP...space is an issue but I will let everyone know how it works once its set up
  #45  
Old 08/16/2006, 09:02 PM
antonsemrad antonsemrad is offline
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So no one has added a carbon source to their RDSB (shrimp) to stimulate nitrate reducing bacteria?
  #46  
Old 08/16/2006, 09:06 PM
luckybaker4 luckybaker4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by antonsemrad
So no one has added a carbon source to their RDSB (shrimp) to stimulate nitrate reducing bacteria?
Why would you need that? I wouldn't want anything rotting in my tank water. Just let nature take its course.
  #47  
Old 08/16/2006, 09:10 PM
antonsemrad antonsemrad is offline
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"You are not trying to make it a place to grow macro or other live inhabitants. You want good water flow so no detritus settles in the sand. Correct?"

Whats wrong with growing "macro or other live inhabitants"?

Am I wrong to think that "detritus" rotting in the sand (without oxygen) is why these thing work?
  #48  
Old 08/16/2006, 09:13 PM
antonsemrad antonsemrad is offline
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luckybaker.. Not in the tank water... sequestered beneath the sand..
  #49  
Old 08/16/2006, 09:22 PM
antonsemrad antonsemrad is offline
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Oh and "Just let nature take its course" is exellent advice. (MHO) I was merely suggesting a way to make a RDSB work faster.
  #50  
Old 08/16/2006, 09:49 PM
luckybaker4 luckybaker4 is offline
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No, the point of the DSB bucket is not to have the stuff rotting in the sand. Really you should not allow anything into the sand. Prefilter your water before it goes into the sand.

I really really really wouldn't do the shrimp thing. IMO, it would create more headaches than help, it would be a lot safer to wait the 4 weeks.
 

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