New Fish Store

[phlipper84]

Yes there is protectionism. I shop Hector's store, I have spent serious money at Southwest when Tim was the owner. I also used to frequent Phoenix stores until it became ridiculous gas-wise to make the trip. Somehow adding 30 dollars to your trip on the chance you will find exactly what you want, or better yet, something you can afford that you really want was not realistic. Back to the topic at hand.
When you make a comment that says "Hector used to have sales, Southwest has sales." One person is more expensive than another, etc. etc. It seems to be unnecessarily taking someone to task. Many moons ago, I used to work at one of the better stores in LA. Great owner, great service, great quality stuff. But you would see regular customers who had sometimes spent thousands of dollars, just disappear. You knew something had probably turned them off to the store as a customer, you just never knew exactly what. I think this happens in almost every business. One bad experience can poison your entire relationship with the store. Like they say, one angry customer can lose 15 more for you. That is why in any business they always say "service, service, service.", and the customer is always right.
As you can figure I do like Hector's store. Believe me the first time I went in there I walked right out, sure that it was just another hole-in-the-wall fish store. However, I gave him a second chance, and I am happy that I have. He has no problem handing out advice, regardless if you are purchasing from him or the internet. In fact I have had him tell me to go to the internet because he can't even buy the equip for what Marine Depot is selling it for. Also, I am extremely picky in terms of what I buy. As we all can be. I have found that very often he has pieces that are different. Not better, just different. I have cherry-picked every store in Tucson and Phoenix. Well not every store, it just seems that way. I do it on price and quality. I don't take weeks to make my decisions, I usually act immediately. Make your own decisions, blame me for a protectionist nature, I really don't care. I just feel that dragging another business down, either intentionally or unintentionally, is not fair. You keep acting as if Tucson needs another fish store when you can't really be happy with what is already here.

[cerreta]

Phil that is ridiculous. We are all entitiled to our opinons. Stating that Hector no longer advertises specials is a fact, not slander. Stating that it is nice to see sales and hoping he or some other stores offer sales supports the idea that I enjoy sales. Nothing more is intended by the comment.

Why is it that I bash Hector but not Rob or any other store? The comments I made were universally applied. Yet, you only defend Hector and his store. You are extremely bias with your comments and like usual wrong. Just like your previous accusations that I was making monely off the coral event hosted at Zach's, WRONG, and several other instancences.

You want an example of bashing, go read my review of Majestic SeaLife on the Store Locator thread, that is bashing. These comments are not. I visit Hector's store and will continue to do so. But when I go to his shop and the door is locked at 3 in the afternoon, I get ****ed and want to go there less and less. And when you associate yourself so strongly with that store and bash me for an innocent comment, than I want to go there even less again! So good job in helping your buddy out, I'm sure he appreciates it.

[cerreta]

sorry, I said pi_ssed, not the f word or somthing that bad. I did not realize it was a banned word.

[Fat Surgeon]

You know guys, it seems as though a major rift has been formed between a few peeople and Hector and I believe that just because you dont get what you want all the time is no reason to cut a business to pieces with YOUR bad experience. If you dont like the man, so be it. Move on and go somewhere else. I feel as though Hector gives out more more advice freely than he even needs to. Rob is also very willing to do the same thing. Lets help both of them build thier stores and reputation up instead of knocking them down.
While I'm on a roll, I'd like to bring up a couple of things that have been bothering me lately. I think the reason why there isnt a strong club in Tucson is because of the reefers here. If we all will be positive and enjoy each others company and do things for one other's saltwater experience, our little corner of the world will be fun and exciting. Besides the Saltwater shop owners, we should be doing little things such as giving away frags to each other instead of charging to make a buck. I truly will never understand why people in this hobby do that. Sure, you pay for the mother colony and the money it costs to raise the corals, but what are you in this hobby for? To make a buck or to have fun and gain a greater understanding of the beauty of nature? Shouldnt we be passing that on? Especially to new people to get them into the hobby without them forking out hundreds and even thousands upfront for a beautiful tank? As for me, I know what I do it for. Do you?

BTW, this comment is not aimed at anyone in particular, but as a generalization of how we should be conducting ourselves and working with each other. If it has got you to think, then it's point has been made.

[fishaholicWife]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fat Surgeon
Besides the Saltwater shop owners, we should be doing little things such as giving away frags to each other instead of charging to make a buck. I truly will never understand why people in this hobby do that. QUOTE]

Fatsurgeon, YOU ARE NUTS ! Who ever said they were only into this hobby for fun. If you can make money off of something you enjoy, WHY NOT. Everyone knows this is not a cheap hobby. Why not reward yourself with selling off a couple of frags and use the money to purchase a new and different coral. And why should anyone just give something away when most times HARD EARNED money is used to purchase anything reef. Why not use your hobby to support your hobby. Also, when you say give away, are you also talking about tanks? DO you honestly believe that we all should just give everything away to someone starting a hobby? I sure the H...l hope not. That's JUST RETARDED !

[fishaholicWife]

Quote From Phlipper As you can figure I do like Hector's store. Believe me the first time I went in there I walked right out, sure that it was just another hole-in-the-wall fish store. End Quote

Yes, We can all tell. So you had a bad experience the first time and gave it another chance. Good for you ! I am sure other people have done the same. Myself included. But when you have more than one bad experience you kind of learn your lesson.

And why is it okay to tell someone about a store only if what you have to say is good. Isn't part of being a good reefer giving advice or tips about stores. Wouldn't it be wrong not to warn someone about customer service or anything else about a store. So if some one comes up to me and says "yeh, I plan on going down to (what ever fish store) to see if they have any deals" I should just stand there with a dumbfounded look on my face and say have fun? Even though I have been there repeatedly and no there are no deals. I don't think it's wrong to let people know about your experience whether it be god or bad. If it's offending to you OH WELL ! Your offending me with your P-ss Ant Antics.

[AZreefkeeper]

Besides the Saltwater shop owners, we should be doing little things such as giving away frags to each other instead of charging to make a buck.

FatSurgeon
Gald you said that, I'm ready for my frags.... Seriously I don't and I think most people don't mind paying a fair amount for coral frag. Everyone in this hobby has alot invested in their coral collection if you can make a few bucks to buy more salt more power to you. I have in the past given away many frags and recieved many frags for free, its a good way to ensure a species survival incase your system crashes, you'll have an available soure to rebuild.

This thread is starting to get heated.

[fishaholic911]

I have shopped Hector's store and have got good deals better than most anyone as I was the one with him from the start.I built all of the stands for him and yes he paid me. I built the pvc shelfs for him and yes he gave me corals for that. I thought we had a good relationship until I encountered some unethical practices. The statement I made earlier about southwest having a 25 percent off sale was to let scott and everyone else know that lfs still offer discounts. I should have never put hector's store in that quote. I did not do it to hype southwest and cut hector down.



As for a tucson club I think most are fine not calling it one. I will start a new thread with votes on that. You can post all your complants on it so we can leave this thead alone. Sorry for high-jacking your thread Zack!

[Zach Franck]

WOW! One little thread and all of this debate...
and all we were looking for was a bit of feedback from people.
Oh well, I guess I will just stay out of this one for awhile.

[fishaholicWife]

Zach, As far as where to open a shop, I say North West Side.

I have been looking into opening a bird store and come to find out I don't think it would do so well with just birds.
I believe the same would be for fish stores. I think for a fish store to do well here it would have to stock more than just fish and coral. I think making it a pet store would work better but your main stock could be reef stuff. That would bring in other clientele looking for pet supplies who have no desire to set up their own reef tank until they see a really good show tank in a pet store.

And I agree with others about pricing. Do some looking around, online and in town. And yes" THE INTERNET IS THE FUTURE" whether we like it or not. Making your shop accessible online will guarantee a wide array of clientele. Use an online shop to fund your in-town shop.

I know for a fact that other fish shops in town do so. Being some one who writes ads for various companies, I know first hand about Local Stores Using Intermnet to boost sales. Not just in advertising online but also selling online.

[Fat Surgeon]

Well, there it is folks. Fishaholicwife has all the answers.

AZReef, I understand most people will pay for a nice fraq, as I would as well. However, I do disagree with selling frags. I also have thousands tied up in my tank like many people do. If I ever let out my secret as to what I do with my frags, well...lets just say perhaps someone like FishWife would probably go insane, so it's better left unsaid. And no, I dont toss 'em down the toilet I'm sure they get quality homes. Who knows FishWife, maybe you have one of my frags in your tank right now. Wouldnt that be ironic.

And Zach, I to am sorry this thread headed in this direction.

FishWife, out of respect for Fishaholic I will not report you to the mod's for your out of control keyboard temper. I wont even chastise you for it. However, in the future, I would be very very careful about what you type about people, specifically how you refer to me while using your CAP LOCKS. If you cannot remember what you said, please re-read your post. While you are at it, go back to my previous post(s) to get a better understanding of what I meant as far as helping new people into the hobby so they don't get sticker shock. If it is to difficult for you, I will do my best to come down to a more clear level that can be easily understood. Please do try to control yourself. I wouldnt blame Phlipper if he flips out and reports you for what you said about him.

[fishaholicWife]

This is so childish. I'm gonna tell ! If you feel the need by all means do so. What I don't understand is how Fatsurgeon and phlipper can come on here knock down a persons few point and nothing is said. I come on here and tell my feelings (and yes, I cap lock it to stress my feelings) and I get threatened ! I did not call you names. I said you were nuts. That is a figure of speach meaning that I felt that way of thinking (that everyone should give away their stuff for free) was a crazy thought. I did not call you retarded, I said the situation was retarded. Please read again. And telling Phlipper about his anticcs was not calling him a name either. I was talking about his attitude on everyone else who does not favor a certain LFS. So you have your oppinions on a good fish store and so do I, why threaten me.

[fishaholicWife]

I'm done on this thread. Knock your selves out !

[kscrimshaw]

From what I can see, it looks like people are spending more time knocking each other than any LFS. Why can't anyone seem to post their opinions, be they positive or negative, without being attacked? And on the flip side, you can't expect to post your opinions without expecting someone to disagree with you. And JUST BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE DOESN"T MEAN THEY ARE ATTACKING YOU!!!

Everyone is just taking themselves way too seriously. fishwife is absolutely right - we should all be able to state our opinions without being attacked or threatened. In the future, if you take personal offense to a particular post, can you please address that person in a PM or email? And if it's not about you, just let it be!

[cerreta]

Well-said Karen.

Surgeon, I wanted to comment about the frag selling. When we conduct our occasional get-togethers, many people sell their frags at these events. This works better than trading, and I highly prefer the sale/auction. The problem with trading is trying to find out what everyone has available and sending multiple emails to conduct such a transaction. This is very time-consuming. By selling, one can liquidate all the stuff they don't have room for, and use the cash to buy a bunch of other things they are looking for. This gives the most freedom to select what you want from others, rather than restricting your options by having to trade with someone who does not really have anything you want.

Furthermore, what about those people who don't have anything to frag. Does that mean they should not partake? Allowing them to buy an aquacultured coral for cheap is friendly and fun. Most of the things sold at the sale/auction events go for $2 to $15 with some more desirable stuff for over $20.

Everyone has the right to make his or her own decisions. However, I would rather see you trade your stuff with other hobbyists rather than trade them for store credit at the LFS, (which is what I am guessing you do with your frags that get "quality homes"). Besides, you say:

I do disagree with selling frags.

. Isn't this what you are dong by selling them to a LFS for store credit? Or, maybe you just give them to the store. In either case, it is your right to choose this, but realize these corals are being sold for retail once they are given to the LFS. Some of the quality stores in Phoenix will mark these corals as AC (aquacultured) or Trade-Ins and sell them at reduced rates, but this practice does not exists in Tucson. So, I find it difficult to understand how you "disagree with selling frags" when you are guilty of the same. The only difference (again I assume you get some cash or store credit in return) is that you just sell to professionals rather than local hobbyists.

[Fat Surgeon]

Well said Scott, however your missing the mark. Let me first clarify by saying that some of the good quality homes that get these frags are not being sold by me to the LFS, nor do I get store credit for anything I donate.
I have had many people I know, and even people I dont know, get started in this hobby. I have helped by donating frags, LR and sometimes even equipement. IMO, if you are looking to buy everything super cheap, than this hobby(or any hobby for that matter) should not be undertaken. As I said before, things are priced pretty high in Tucson and the shop owners would do well to lower their prices a tad. I am fortunate enough that does not apply to me, but I am trying to look out for the folks who want to be in this hobby and can't afford some of the higher priced items. And before I get slammed on this point, no I have never, or will ever donate a completed tank to any single individual. Helping people out is something I enjoy doing, especially getting people started in a hobby that I truly enjoy. If you need to make money on your corals and fish to continue your hobby, so be it. I'll never bash you. I may tell you I think i'ts wrong, but i am simply stating my own opinion, as some of you have so eloquently said I have the right to do. Never once in any of my posts did I tell anyone that they were not entitled to thier opinion. In fact, I respect you for it. Number one, it shows the diversity of people we have and it also weeds out the people I would like to donate to and talk reef with. So far, I have been impressed only by a few, but for the most part, I have an even better understanding of why we dont have a tight knit group. Lack of vision and proper leadership is what slows our reefcommunity growth down in Tucson. If you dont believe me, look around you wherever you go. Wherever there is no guidance and leadership, failure is sure to pop its head up over and over again. Just read the thread about LFS quarantine started by Tucson's very own Saltwater tribal leader and his grand council. Need I say more?

[owsi]

lol

[Satori]

Originally posted by Fat Surgeon
Wherever there is no guidance and leadership, failure is sure to pop its head up over and over again.

There has been no failure here that I'm aware of. Every time we've gotten together it's been a huge success.

[owsi]

And if I was "Tucson's very own Saltwater tribal leader" , I would start up the old monthly shop tours and there would be only one Tucson lfs, at present on that list. When the weather cools we will do another big one, should get 30 to 40 without leadership egos involved. Did you make the last one Fat Surgeon?

[cerreta]

Thanks Surgeon for the comments and clarification.

I guess I have the opinion that you think people are making money selling frags and this may be competing with product sold at various LFSs.

If this is true than it is a fair point. However, to my knowlege, no one that attends the events is selling their stuff in order to profit from it. If they are, it is a foolish place to come, because stuff sells for real cheap.

Likewise, I recently sold a bunch of corals as did Gary, to make room for our new tanks. Niether of us do it to make money, but rather to clear space and to gain some money, to turn around and purchase more corals or equipment. I hope one day to be in your position where money spent in the hobby is a non-issue, but for most of here, it is a primary concern.

BTW, didn't you come to one of these events, I can't recall if we met.

[Fat Surgeon]

MSM, perhaps failure was to harsh of a word. Sorry for being so rash. I meant no direction.

Your welcome Ceretta, but let me clarify further.

I dont believe the stores feel as though frag sellers are a threat to their business at all. At least not the ones I talk to. It would be foolish for any of the store owners to think that way, as they have a much higher turn around on livestock and can afford to house more species than any size tank you guys could muster up. This is not a derogatory statement, just a fair one. Does anyone have more than 1000 gallons running in their home at the same time? If there is, congratulations and my apologies.

If you make very little money selling coral, then why sell at all? Makes little sense to me, but then again, perhaps I think on a more giving level.

Your recollection would serve you well Cerreta as I have never had the pleasure of meeting you or anyone else here. I think I'd like to meet Phlipper and AzReefKeeper someday though. Business people usually understand each other better.

And Owsi, at first I thought you had a sense of humor. Don't you mean a turnout of 30-40 with a possibility of no leadership skills? Perhaps you may have the ego and are afraid of what a club would mean for your standing. Could there be someone out there in Salt Land that has more knowledge and experience than the Tribal Leader? My guess is that there is. BTW, clubs I have been to in Southern California have no dues and no egos. Just a bunch of great people who get together and talk reef and are willing to help out any new people and build up the LFS storeowners. How long have you been keeping saltwater? I would think with the amount of time you claim to have under your belt, you would be better inclined to understand how to make one work without the egos, dues and so forth. Not only that, if you have been keeping saltwater for as long as you claim to, by my calculations you should be anywhere from 45-50 years or older. Don't guys our age usually stop putting down other people and relax? Or maybe that's how the term "grumpy old men" came into being. Glad I'm not one of those. I'll be waiting for an intelligent reply. Will I get one?

[Satori]

Surgeon, you've made my next point. Like minded people band together. That's the way it is in any community, and that's cool.

The Phoenix forums may seem more organized and civil at first glance, but keep in mind that Phoenix has a much larger pool of reef keepers. Obviously Phoenix has just as diverse a community of opinions as Tucson, but there's so many like minded people that a bunch of them can come together in one forum and give the image of unity. It doesn't have anything to do with leadership. There are tons of people up there who would gladly start a new forum with you and phlipper because they feel exactly the same way. Don't get me wrong, that's cool, that's what it's all about.

[owsi]

Fat Surgeon, You and phlipper just bring out the best in me. I had not mentioned hector or his whatever since the last time, many months ago when phlipper got me started. I did not put hector down in this thread till phlipper praised his best butdy and was upset that someone had the audacity to say SouthWest was having a 25% off sale for a while. And yes I still feel this town can support another Reef Store. I see Rob heading toward taking over the East market, (by your own admission) and probably most of Tucson if no one else comes along. I am older then your guess, but don't consider myself grumpy, but jerks will not go unanswered. I do not by any stretch consider myself an expert, this hobby has changed way to fast for anyone to be all knowing. As for your comment "Don't you mean a turnout of 30-40 with a possibility of no leadership skills" what a stupid statement! We don't fit your mold, good go see phlipper and hector

[Fat Surgeon]

At least I recieved one intelligent reply back. Thank you MSM, and yes you are right, perhaps this would not be the place for me to talk reef with anyone who is currently in your group. You are absolutely right about like minded people. Arent different people one of the things in life that make the world go around? Good luck to you MSM, you seem like a pretty decent guy. Maybe you dont quite fit the mold of the others here as well. Perhaps we can have the pleasure of running into each other at a LFS someday.

[lovelylinda]

What's wrong with selling frags to each other? The seller is just raising money to spend on salt water stuff anyway- probably @ a store. It's not like we'll put those $ into the college fund. we're just supporting our habit.