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  #26  
Old 12/16/2006, 11:57 PM
Blinkgyrl2987 Blinkgyrl2987 is offline
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I think billsreef is right... like I said I work there... and there are stupid CORPORATE laws we have to follow and alot of them dont make any sense thats why working in my own department I let the immediate managers know what I'm doing and they are cool with it... ( none of those higher up people need to know) Its those higher up people that say we're not allowed to feed live fish to any of the fish.... but in that case what is our snow flake eel supposed to get?

They really dont know what they are doing.. the higher up the less they know because they have the least contact with the animals out of all of us. Its just a job for me... I do the best I can and you better believe ... that eel gets his live fish! lol I dont care what anyone says. Ha!

It would be nice if each store was independent though.
  #27  
Old 12/17/2006, 12:01 AM
saltycreefer saltycreefer is offline
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I dont think anyone should support the saltwater end of Petco. None of their stores in my area have the ability to keep anything alive. I think it sucks to go into a shop and see a bunch of sick fish. That's what I like about chains like Petsmart, no saltwater.
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  #28  
Old 12/17/2006, 09:52 AM
billsreef billsreef is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blinkgyrl2987
I think billsreef is right... like I said I work there... and there are stupid CORPORATE laws we have to follow and alot of them dont make any sense thats why working in my own department I let the immediate managers know what I'm doing and they are cool with it... ( none of those higher up people need to know) Its those higher up people that say we're not allowed to feed live fish to any of the fish.... but in that case what is our snow flake eel supposed to get?

They really dont know what they are doing.. the higher up the less they know because they have the least contact with the animals out of all of us. Its just a job for me... I do the best I can and you better believe ... that eel gets his live fish! lol I dont care what anyone says. Ha!

It would be nice if each store was independent though.
I also used to work for them, still have many friends in the company at store level. Indeed doing right by the fish often involves ignoring certain "policys" and the need for a store manager willing to let a good fish person do what is needed. BTW for the snowflake eel, they will readily learn to take frozen or rehydrated freeze dried krill which is a far better diet for them than the feeder fish. If you do feed any live feeders, stick to the rosy red minnows as they are a better than the goldfish which are bad diet for anything, even fresh water predators.
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  #29  
Old 12/29/2006, 11:55 AM
kyrie_eleison kyrie_eleison is offline
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I'll tell you guys about one experience I had at a local Petco (only one). I'm usually one who keeps "certain" opinions to myself for the sake of discrediting certain businesses and to avoid making a scene. This Petco (in Northern California) just happen to have a mandarin dragonet; a fish that my wife absolutely adores. Anyways, after searching 4 or 5 different stores trying to find a suitable species that was both healthy (fat) and eats, we find see this one.

It was BIG (had to be at least 3.5 inches!) AND it looked healthy; not to mention--CHEAP! So...being the big skeptic I was I had asked to see a sales associate to ask about background info concerning this thing despite having done probably 10X the research prior to visiting this place.

"How long have you had this thing?" ans...2 months. (acc. to Sales Person)

"What do you feed it?" ans...FROZEN BRINE SHIMP! (acc. to Sales Person) CAN'T BE RIGHT.

"How often do you feed it?" ans...Once a day (acc. to Sales Person)

"Where did it come from?" ans..."not sure." (acc. to Sales Person)

blah blah blah...

Finally, the ultimate question: "Can I see you feed him?" ans...we can't do that, they're on a schedule; so he's already been fed. (acc. to sales person)

Out of nowhere, my wife says to me, "HUNNEY...look over here: this powder blue tang has a serious case of marine ich...so does that puffer! These fish must all be sharing the same water!"

While other customers are standing nearby, I look over at the powder blue tang and the pufferfish and in a surly and direct tone I said to my wife, "WE ARE OUT OF HERE...AND WE ARE NOT COMING BACK!"

On my way out, I saw a little sign that said, "no refunds on saltwater fish".

Just pathetic! Petco should never even be in the business of Marine Aquarium livestock.
  #30  
Old 12/29/2006, 02:59 PM
jbittner jbittner is offline
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Ok!! I don't want to sound like a Petco Supporter (which I am not), But that story could have been in any LFS in the world. Most if not all LFS I have ever been in have a multiple tank system, and if you look long enough I can assure you you'll find a fish with spots or torn fins on an infection or dead. I have never seen a LFS offer a guarantee on saltwater fish (unless you buy online). Also, the mandarin very well could have been eating Brine (probably not but maybe) At least you wouldn't have to worry about the mandarin catching ich (slime coat prevents it ). I was just amazed at the quality of the livestock in this certain store, I also knew I might start a firestorm.
  #31  
Old 12/30/2006, 06:47 AM
mnmsea mnmsea is offline
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just my two cents, but back about a year ago I worked at a petco before going to college. I personally beleive the main problems are the supplier of fish ( a company called seagrest) and the corporate rules. (BTW the stores are def. not franchises). Corporate does not allow quarantine tanks, they don't allow sick tanks. They dont allow the use of copper based medications, the only remedy they allow for saltwater fish is freshwater dips, which are seldom done correctly by the poorly trained associates. And even if the section is having a good week, we would get in a whole shipment of fish infested with ich from the get go. I would really like to see what kind of horrible environment they are being kept in at the holding facility.

i would encourage those who are concerned to write or email the company coporate directly, and individual stores will probably not pass the message on. I would also question the integrity of the company seagrest publicly. I agree that no chain store has the appropriate resources to carry a viable saltwater section.

FYI, they are no longer allowed to carry mandarins or powder blues (along with some other tricky fish) without special permission and a special customer order. (phew... a little).
  #32  
Old 12/30/2006, 04:17 PM
dragonforce dragonforce is offline
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lol these are some good horror stories, keep them coming.
  #33  
Old 12/31/2006, 03:19 AM
kyrie_eleison kyrie_eleison is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbittner
Ok!! I don't want to sound like a Petco Supporter (which I am not), But that story could have been in any LFS in the world. Most if not all LFS I have ever been in have a multiple tank system, and if you look long enough I can assure you you'll find a fish with spots or torn fins on an infection or dead. I have never seen a LFS offer a guarantee on saltwater fish (unless you buy online). Also, the mandarin very well could have been eating Brine (probably not but maybe) At least you wouldn't have to worry about the mandarin catching ich (slime coat prevents it ). I was just amazed at the quality of the livestock in this certain store, I also knew I might start a firestorm.
jbitter,

Supporter? Sure sounds like it, but what do I care. <---notice a "period" and not a "question mark". brine shrimp? frozen? I can assure you, if that were even a little bit true...THAT THING WOULD BE PRICELESS! I have only heard about one or two different stories about an aquarist that got their mandarin to eat frozen food (mysis to be exact) and that took him nearly three months trial and error in addition to having a tank with an unlimited supply of copepods and amphipods. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MANDARIN THAT WILL EAT FROZEN BRINE SHRIMP FROM PETCO.

Oh by the way...the mandarin dragonet CAN get ich as well. The Cryptocaryon parasite is much more aggressive than you think or know. That thick layer of mucus that you were referring to is not as protective as you were made to believe. Only a few different species of "fish" are truly immune to cryptocaryon aside from inverts. Just thought you should know.

Those people at Petco are the biggest bunch of ****** I've ever seen. I wouldn't lay a dime down on a single fish (fresh or saltwater) from Petco unless it was free and all I had to pay for was the tax.

Last edited by billsreef; 12/31/2006 at 12:07 PM.
  #34  
Old 12/31/2006, 11:48 AM
sean1 sean1 is offline
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I know some of the petcos have unhealthy livestock but I shop at the petco in union square(N.Y.C.) and they have a large selection of corals that are predominantly aquacultured and seem very healthy. I even see some healthy aquacultured tridacnda clams from time to time.
  #35  
Old 12/31/2006, 12:05 PM
billsreef billsreef is offline
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kyrie_eleison,

I wouldn't make such blanket statements about mandarins not eating brine, I've gotten them to eat frozen brine and mysis fairly easily on more than a few occasions It's kind of like seahorses, you need to feed them lots and have no fast moving fish that will outcompete them for the food. Also, yes, they will need a large well established tank with plenty of worms and pods in order to do well long term.

BTW there are certain words, that while not in the censor list, are best not used
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  #36  
Old 12/31/2006, 12:12 PM
naldopr naldopr is offline
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I work at petco and they suck!!!
  #37  
Old 01/02/2007, 11:09 AM
kyrie_eleison kyrie_eleison is offline
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Bill,

Mandarins are too hard to train. I tried it once; actually twice. The first time I was lucky; it never ate frozen "anything". I first moved it from a larger tank (with tons of copepods and amphipods to a tank with few (a 20 gallon). And, I nearly polluted the entire tank with frozen brine in an attempt to force him. I realized after two weeks of this "virtual" confinement to a 20 gallon nano; feeding everyday with near perfect tank parameters (I know this because I practically built an entire mini-reef JUST FOR HIM). I tested the water almost twice a day for almost everything except trace elements. It was the only fish in the tank (there wasn't even a cleaner shrimp present; something I think could have assisted me instead of a small net in catching uneaten food). Even the cheap corals I had in it outgrew the tank. After about two weeks or so and a very sunken belly, I traded it in to another LFS. I couldn't bear to watch a beautiful creature die in my little glass box.

The second time was a messy story with a more sad ending. We shouldn't be taking those creatures out of their nature habitats. As for my use of the "R" word to refer to those "F"ools at Petco, it's unfortunate that I cannot think of anything positive to say about them.
  #38  
Old 01/02/2007, 08:08 PM
steve70 steve70 is offline
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the Petco where i live in williamsburg does not QT thier arivals.
but i have seen some pretty healthy livestock come in. i dont work there i just go when they get the stock in to get the pick of the litter.
  #39  
Old 01/08/2007, 10:21 AM
slclink slclink is offline
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I have been very succesfull in getting mandarines to eat prepared. What I did was buy live tigerpods and when I introduced the tiger pods I put in freezedried cyclopeeze. My mandarine would go for a tiger pod and saw the cyclopeeze and went for it instead since it was moving slower. It only took me about a week and it also did it when I put in brine and cyclopeeze. This is also a psycodelic (who are supposedly harder to train)
  #40  
Old 01/08/2007, 02:21 PM
jbittner jbittner is offline
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Wow!! Interesting where this tread has gone. The best way to get mandarins to eat is to create a "dining area" for them. This way they don't have to compete for food. I just sink a small mouth canning jar to the bottom of my tank and place the food in the jar w/ a feeding syringe. Over time the mandarin will figure out the system and eat in the jar. I have trained 2 personally and seen many sucessful cases. And yes, mandarins are less suceptable to marine ich (look it up!). This tread was about a certain Petco vs. the unethical treatment of Petco as a company. I have been in this hobby for a long time and have unfortunately been in (I would guess) 30 different Petco stores. I have never bought a single live good from them. Ok I do purchase crickets for my veiled from there.
  #41  
Old 01/08/2007, 02:29 PM
jbittner jbittner is offline
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Here is the ich link I was looking for
http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.p...showpage&pid=3
  #42  
Old 01/11/2007, 04:16 PM
kyrie_eleison kyrie_eleison is offline
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jbittner,

I do as much research as I do working on my tank(s). I need not click on any link to where ever. All websites are just like the marine species themselves, they are subject to opinion based upon experience/individual study. I've done quite a bit of background research before considering my options. Some websites swear up and down that the dragonet is so resilient to disease that in near perfect conditions, it's virtually immortal. Others have said that the dragonet HAS been bred in captivity. If that's possible, why haven't I seen them?

You know what? Come to think of it, some "I"DIOT from one of those Petcos told me that their mandarin was bred in captivity. Of course he also told me pirahna was saltwater fish.

Anyways, $12 dollars for a mandarin is no loss to me, especially if I could train it to eat frozen food. I could have easily turned around and sold it for 3 times as much.

Nevertheless, Mandarins CAN die of ich, I know this because...



my second one did. After 5 months, I just gave up. I couldn't figure him out; couldn't get him out of the tank; always hid in the rocks; the food cope/amphipod even isopod population was plentiful.
  #43  
Old 01/11/2007, 05:33 PM
billsreef billsreef is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by kyrie_eleison
Others have said that the dragonet HAS been bred in captivity. If that's possible, why haven't I seen them?
Breeding them is the easy part. It's the larval rearing that is still being worked on. A very few people have raised only one or a couple of larvae to metamorphosis, Julian Sprung is one them and a couple of others can be found in the breeding forum. However, until the larval rearing has made progress to the point of consistently rearing large quantities to post metamorphosis we won't be seeing any commercially raised one's.
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  #44  
Old 01/12/2007, 12:47 PM
jbittner jbittner is offline
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my second one did. After 5 months, I just gave up. I couldn't figure him out; couldn't get him out of the tank; always hid in the rocks; the food cope/amphipod even isopod population was plentiful.

Why does this description have anything to do with ich?? Seems like a failure to thrive to me.
  #45  
Old 01/12/2007, 01:04 PM
kyrie_eleison kyrie_eleison is offline
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bit,

It died...of ich (not a failure to thrive). Trust me, I've reviewed my journal entries; it did have white spots all over it and being a creature that lives not only on the live rock but on the substrate it was inevitable.
  #46  
Old 01/12/2007, 02:46 PM
jbittner jbittner is offline
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How old is your tank kyrie?? Which tanks was it in? IMO and in 9 yrs of reefkeeping i have never seen a mandarin die of ich.
  #47  
Old 01/12/2007, 04:53 PM
kyrie_eleison kyrie_eleison is offline
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I don't know...2 and half years? Why? Doesn't matter. I've had more fun with my nanos.
  #48  
Old 01/12/2007, 06:34 PM
jbittner jbittner is offline
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As far as pod poulation, yes--size, rock mass, age of tank and a safe place for pods to grow (refugium) do matter. I am sorry I was just tyring to help you find the problem with keeping mandarins alive. The mandarin was in the 55?? It seems to take alot of live rock to keep them alive IMO
  #49  
Old 01/17/2007, 11:01 AM
kyrie_eleison kyrie_eleison is offline
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jb,

You are right...it does take a great deal of live rock. 65 lb and a small culture of pods more than sufficed. The only reason I use a 55 is a lack of space in my home. I can assure you that if I could have gone with a bigger setup I would have at least went with a 100. If it were a 100 gallon, I would never had to ever do anything for it; just let it predate the pod population.

The opinions (including yours) vary wide and far beyond. Depending upon who you speak to you're going to hear that you need at least a 100 gallon tank and 100+ lbs of of live rock and has to be running a min. of 1 year. Others say that you could get away with a 30 gallon; 40+ lbs of live rock and a refugium with pod culture (provided there are no other creatures competing for pods). One guy I know kept his in a 10 gallon nano; he of course was very well versed in the reef-keeping skill and hence the dietary needs of the mandarin was well met. Come to think of it...his mandarin actually ate FROZEN FOODS. Something I could never get mine to do.

I even went with a juvenile (couldn't have been more than an 1.5 inches in length). Absolutely gorgeous creature and a talk of great conversation among friends and family.

I appreciate your trouble-shooting technique but mandarins are too sensitive of a creature to keep. Ich is just way too aggressive of a parasite to contend with at times. For mandarins, they have the tendency to hide in the gills waiting for the right time to strike.
  #50  
Old 01/17/2007, 11:21 AM
jbittner jbittner is offline
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I actually had mine in my 55 with about 60 lbs of live rock. I am glad you appreciate the simplicity of these amazing creatures. Sorry if I come off as argumentative.
 

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