Experienced advice on a fuge for a 220g?

[ebeb]

Looking for help here with my 220g tank (struggling to get this right as I want to rightsize this).

A bunch of questions here, answer any/all you can help with.

220g tank
have a 28g sump
Have a 24g acrilic tank I want to use for a fuge.

Plan is to run a 150gph powerhead out of the sump to pump water to the fuge.

Drill the 24g acrylic around 2" from the top and install a 1" bulkhead.

Run a 1" hose from that bulkhead back to the sump.

Questions:

1-why do I need this fuge again? (serious question)

2-draw the water before it goes through the skimmer or does it matter?

3-where do I return the water to (by the skimmer and have it skimmer again or by the return pump to it goes straight to the tank

4-how do the pods get back to the big tank (dumbest question I am asking).

5-what do I stock this thing with


6-do I put a heat in this fuge?

7-What lights do I need.

8-am I missing anything else (trying to only do this one and do it right. anything can be done different here include sump size and fuge size.


Thanks a ton for the help (this site is making my 220g the success it is today!!)

Eric

[willis]

Well, what the heck, I'll take a stab at this. Good thing it's not multiple choice
1. Pod growth-- nutrient export.
2.I don't think it matters, if you return the water into the sump it is gonna get skimmed anyways.
3. probably answered that one on #2.
4. Not a bad question, I am wondering the same thing myself, I think they will find a way back in!!!
5.I would stock it with any kind of macro you can find, I have got mine stocked with 3 diff. kinds of caulerpa, but I'm always lookin for something different. Alot of people use Chaetomorpha.
6. I wouldn't, unless your tank is in a real cold room.
7. I've got 2 96w pc's over mine.You could do a search on lighting in refuges and get a whole bunch of different ideas.
8. I don't know if you are missing anything, am I????????


Good luck

[hdtvguy]

Here is a good pic to help you understand.

[stellinger]

You definitely want to have the output from your fuge bypass your skimmer. Pods and other tiny critters will be removed by a good skimmer. You would also prefer to have the water enter your fuge before passing through your skimmer so it will be somewhat richer in nutrients, the pods need to eat also. The pods and other critters will have to take a ride through your return pump to get back to your display tank. Don't know how many that will kill, but do a search here. I remember a thread that discussed pod mortality for several different brands of return pumps.

[ebeb]

thanks for the help, always looking for more input here.

am i doing it wrong by having the fuge and the sump separate and below the tank. is there a better way to do this?

Thanks for the help on this, appreciate all the feedback from those of you with big tanks on the best way to handle a fuge (thanks for feedback on all my questions)

Eric

[stellinger]

There is not necessarily a right or wrong way to set up a fuge. A lot of ways to skin a cat. Some put the fuge above the tank so it can drain back into the display by gravity. That way the pods don't have to go through the return pump. However, it can often be hard to physically arrange things aesthetically with the fuge above.

[gwrulzmylife]

However, it can often be hard to physically arrange things aesthetically with the fuge above.

Screw aesthetics! LOL

[ReeferMac]

1: Algae growth and for nutrient export, good place to grow frags, bugs, slugs, and things that go bump in the night.

2: Personally, I'd grab the water after the skimmer. Skimmer's going to remove particulate matter, but leave dissolved nutrients (which the algae will feed off of). Refuges also make nice bubble traps, so see if there's a way to make your skimmer's output, the input to your refuge (thereby saving you another pump, too).

3: In the tank, if possible, if not.. somewhere's AFTER the skimmer in your sump flow.

4: See the first suggestion to #3...

5: Live sand, live rock, you'd be amazed what will grow out of that alone. You wanna spend some bucks, checkout Inlandaquatics.com. If you're cheap like me, just put some filter floss in the overflow, and pick out the bugs and stuff that that picks up.

6: Doesn't hurt, but put it on the same controller as your tank - you want conditions to be {roughly} identical in each environment.

7: Whatever you got.. I've used 15W of Flourescents, and 175W of MH before. Currently I have a pair of 65W PC's. Anything that will grow algae is fine. Yes, that includes an incandescent 'grow lamp' from walmart if money's really tight.

8: The idea behind a refuge is in it's name - it's a refuge. In your tank, everything has a predator (well, beside's that big tang, but you get the idea). There's stuff that eats the bugs and slugs (fish, corals, hermits, etc.), herbivores eat algae and anything else green that grows (recycling nutrients, not exporting them)... by setting up a separate tank, with NO PREDATORS in it (that meants no hermits, fish, corals, or anything besides maybe some snails), you're giving all the organisms a sheltered area to grow. Populations can frolic free from predation, or anything else that may hamper reproduction and expansion of the population. The algae grows big and large without getting eaten, and when the time comes, you remove it from the system. This removes the dissolved organics that the plants have been feeding on while growing. When your fish eat them in the tank, they are merely recycling the nutrients, not removing them.

- Mac

[rallendorph]

There is no problem having the fuge and sump being separate, or below the tank. The only thing you realistically lose is the benefit of copepods and such being exported from Fuge to your tank. The pump impellers will shred them. Might aid the corals, but probably not the fishies.

Here is simple pic of my water flow through sump and fuge. Basically, I have 2x drains one of which I split, and run to the fuge. This way I can control the water flow through the fuge without effecting the tank. I also run 2x returns to the tank.

I will be adding a 3rd tank for Frags and grow sometime soon.



Rob A.

[ebeb]

what are you using for fuge and sump an where did you get them? (barrels/rbd bins/etc)

struggling to find somthing bigger than30gto use that is clear 9must put under tank)

[gwrulzmylife]

why must it be clear ebeb?

[alan214]

Originally posted by rallendorph
[B] The only thing you realistically lose is the benefit of copepods and such being exported from Fuge to your tank. The pump impellers will shred them. ]

This is not entirely true. Critters (pods, mysis shrimp, etc.) make it from my fuge to the sump, and through the return pump alive. I know this to be true as I had no critters in my display tank before I set up my fuge.

[rallendorph]

ebeb - If your questions was to me, I am using two poly stock tanks from Blaine's Farm and Fleet. Basically the same thing as Rubbermaid stock tanks but 1/2 the price. If Blaine's is not local to you, you can try any Farm and Tractor supply store and ask for Poly stock tanks. Only thing you need to make sure of is the product you get was not formulated with a fungicide. I personally have not found a poly tank that was treated, but I've heard they do make them.

If your fuge will be out of sight, then this is a great approach that many on RC use. Also fairly cheap - both of my tanks together cost ~ $100.00. Pic down below.

alan214 - I asked the questions about copepods etc making the trip through the pumps. The general consensus of folks (including Bomber and other folks brighter than me) was that the copepods were too fragile, and are pureed by the impeller. That said, I too have a fairly diverse migration of copepods, but I believe the vast majority are shredded.

I did try directly feeding mysis through my sump into the main tank. The body parts did indeed make it into the tank in a form that the fish could feed on, but none of them were whole.






Rib A.

[rallendorph]

ebeb - if you need smaller fuge / sump than the stock tanks look for the right size Rubbermaid container. Do a search for "Rubbermaid" on RC going back 3 to 6 months and you should find many threads. This is a common & cost effective way of implementing a fuge / sump if it is out of sight.

Rob A.

[ReeferMac]

The bugs most certainly do survive the trip through the pump. Have witnessed it countless times myself.

- Mac

[rallendorph]

ReeferMac - Hiya. I believe ya.

In my system I periodically setup a Mysis holding tank to add live mysis shrimp into the sump near the water drains. I use a dosing pump to add water to the mysis holding tank, so that periodically a fixed amount of water is added, and overflows the holding tank into the sump. Thus delivering mysis to the sump / tank. Each time I watched for it I would see particulate matter come shooting out of the tank returns, and the fish would go nuts. However, I can't say I ever saw a live mysis make the trip.

Rob a.

[ReeferMac]

I understand Rob, that sounds like a neat system. I've actually had a few experiences though, setting up refuge's ironically, where they were clean to begin with, and all I did was hook it up to the tank via a pump (once a Sen700, this time an Eheim1060), and after one night of running plumbed into the system, I had life inside (some were sizeable too). Can't say they didn't get f---'ed up, but they were alive. Copepods and Amphipods mostly. I've watched Spaghetti worms get shot through my iwaki55, and were squirming on the flip side. I don't think pumps are nearly as fatal as most people would have you believe. I've just seen too much stuff survive going through. I've witnessed lots get turned into coral food, too, don't get me wrong... But not everything gets chopped to bits, at least from my experience.

- Mac

[ebeb]

Thanks for all the thoughts on this thread.

My challenge is I need to do everything under the tank (would have to move the water up 8 feet, across 20 feet, down 8 feet to another room in order to go bigger than 72x30 underneath.

I also need to have something clear so I can see the water level (tried a blue rbd container but it was really hard to see how high the water level was).

Other option is to spend the dough to get bigger acrylics made to go under the tank but don't want to do that.

for now i have a 30g clear rbd and a 28g acrylic sump. sounds like I am stuck with those

Boy I wish I had the room to do what you did with these big tanks!!

Conclusions I have here:
1-OK to pump fuge back to main tank (or back to sump and then to tank) rather than have it drain directly into the tank

2-Good guidance in terms of stocking, lighting, etc.

Thanks again!!

Eric

[ReeferMac]

No problems Eric. Ideally, in a perfect world, number 1 _should_ drain via gravity into the tank. A lot of stuff does get chopped up. However, some will make it. If we all lived in a perfect world, we'd use nothing but archemedies screws and airlifts to move water... yet Rio's still sell.
Spend your coin on getting a detritovore and macro algae kit from InlandAquatics, and you'll have a more productive system in the long run.

- Mac