how many actually shop at 6th ave here

[racrumrine]

Speaking of other LFS in SF. I was just in the 2 shops on Broadway near Chinatown.

The Western one has only fresh water and I had never been in there before. The smell of disinfectant/cleaners/beach was so strong, it was hard to be in there more than a couple of minutes. The conditions were sad.

The Eastern one (Hung Ming?) I have been in one other time. They have a lot of stuff; but, I don't think you get a break on the prices. The tanks were pretty sad too. There was one Hippo Tang that was hard to look it he was in such bad shape. They have a mushroom tank with Aiptasia's almost as big as the mushrooms.

Compared to Hung Ming?, 6th Ave seems to take much better care of their livestock; and, their prices on supplies are much more competitive.

Regarding Mike, he really is a nice guy and his heart is in the right place. The problem is between suffering from heat stroke, when the MH lights burned him, and drinking the tank water (a top secret experiment gone bad), he's been suffering from Toxic Tank Syndrome (TTS). It's not Mike's fault, it's to be expected from an Absent Minded Physics Professor (a common occupational hazard in his field). So, please be kind to him.

Happy Holidays!

Roy

[badpacket]

Originally posted by orientalexpress
Their business model is get it cheap, and out the door as quick as possible. They do that by pricing low, and taking volume over quality,it that good or it's that bad?if u a businese man u want your product sit there and or u want to move them out?i don't know u guy,i want that LIVING CREATURES that wholesale did not guarantee or return out of here asap.

The problem is that you are looking at this as just a profit business, as 6th Ave. certainly does. However even being a Capitalist, I think there are certain minimum standards that most people, US, European, Asian, etc believe are 'humane' when selling living creatures.
Obviously you and I are not on the same wavelength, so its doubtful either of us will change the other's mind.
If 6th Ave. was selling cats and dogs in a similar fashion, they'd most likely have been closed down by Animal Protection or the SPCA by now. This is either cultural or simple greed I would suspect.

6th Ave. is the Harbour Freight of the Bay Area aquaria retailers.

[scuzy]

so what's the point here ? there seems to lead to nothing. Everyone just do what they want and don't try to push your views onto others. End of discussions there. Now we're back to harmony of looking at our fishes swim.

[badpacket]

Originally posted by racrumrine

In the past year, I have visited at least 12 different LFS around the bay area. At about 4 of them, including 6th Avenue, I have seen new bags come in. The standard industry practice seems to be sliced open bag and dump the contents into a net and the water into a trash can. Then, toss the fish into the display tank for sale. Can we confirm who doesn't do this?


Roy

Well, I know for a fact that Joe from UWW does not do this at all. I've been around a number of times when he has had new product in, and have seen him with 20-30 seperate buckets acclimating them. I've bought stuff off of him that he's had for usually a couple of weeks, that are in good shape. I have no problem paying a little more than 6th's prices for something that has successfully passed through the transhipping stress. And, he is always more than happy to give you the Best Practices for husbandry of everything he sells.

Like everyone else, I want to save $$ wherever possible. However getting excellent customer service has shown itself to be well worth the small % extra that some retailers charge. If enough people simply go cheapo, then eventually they will not even have the option in the future. Only looking at immediate $$/cents can be shortsighted in this hobby.

[badpacket]

Originally posted by scuzy
so what's the point here ? there seems to lead to nothing. Everyone just do what they want and don't try to push your views onto others. End of discussions there. Now we're back to harmony of looking at our fishes swim.

I disagree ( so what else is new).
This is a discussion about 6th Ave., and how/whether they practice acceptable husbandry, along with other retailers.
Its obviously of interest to many people, including those who patronize the place, and those who refuse too.

As a marine club similar to other 'pet' clubs, its generally considered 'ok' to talk about the welfare of the creatures that the club is based upon. As I said, if this were about cats, dogs, horses, 6th ave. would probably be on notice by some agency already. I think their business operation is sad and cruel, but they have the right to run it as they see fit. I however have the right to comment upon their operation, and if that influences someone to avoid them, then hopefully it will cause a 'market correction' of sorts.

Opining that a club based upon marine creatures should avoid discussing such is rather odd to say the least. Is it not possible that people who patronize the place might feel some discomfort if they were to honestly look at their actions and recognize that they are directly supporting such poor treatment?

Just something to think about.

[racrumrine]

Thanks for the tip about UWW. I've heard good things about them and I always wanted to check it out; but, I hear his opening hours are unpredictible and I would be driving from to far away to have the disappointment of finding him closed as others have described on these threads.

On the topic of cheap vs. quality/service, I think there is a place for both in most markets/industries. Look at hardware, the Home Depot's of the world wiped out a lot of small mom and pop businesses. Yet, in many communities, there is a successful "full-service" hardware store that is able to stay in business vis a vis the big guys. And, the reason is that it takes forever to find someone at Home Depot that can tell you where something is located (let alone walk you through how to do the repair).

In my LFS wanderings, the people that have spent the most time answering my newbie questions, are Steve at Lucky Ocean (even though he is helpful, it took about 4 visits before I ever found him working there), and Hunter at Lucky Goldfish in Oakland, and the store in Concord (I forget the name right now). Recently, I thought the people at All about Fish in Pleasant Hill were very helpful as well. Even 6th Ave has been more helpful to me than some of the better known places I've been to.

I've spent hundreds at both Lucky Ocean and Lucky Goldfish to reward them for their helpfulness.

I've also spent lots of money at other places to. I just wanted to point out who gave the most helpful customer service to me based on my personal experiences.

Happy Holidays,

Roy

[patrickb]

There is no excuse for shopping at 6th avenue or other places like them (particularly 99 cent fish, now called aqua123)

first, they their bioload is way too high compared to other stores. Look at joe at UWW, he has like 3 or 4 fish in 30 gallon tank.

second, is the type of animals they have. jelly fish? crazy looking sharks? There is almost no way to keep these fish in captivity unless you're Monterrey Bay Aquarium.

6th Avenue operation is JUST like a Chinese fish store. Trust me I have been to China. They don't give a flying fish about the animals. Compare that to places like UWW where Joe won't get fish for 1/2 the friggen year because he thinks they might die. Not all fish stores are the same. Lucky Ocean has good husbandry. UWW has great husbandry. Buying dry goods is not much better than buying the fish because the money goes to the same pot.

that's my rant. now here is a really really nice fish store in Hong Kong. This was about 100 times nicer than other fish stores I would see there.

[amgbenzs]

I keep hearing this and that on specific stores but does anyone know how they treat at the wholesalers. I do and what racrumrine said before was correct. about the practice seems to be sliced open bag and dump the contents into a net and the water into a trash can. some just put everything in the tank.

[bookfish]

This is a great time for me to point out that supporting ethical wholesalers is important too. The folks at ASAP take great pains to acclimate their fish properly and I bet Steve and Gresham do too.
Simply asking your LFS if they ever order from ASAP or Cortez Marine, or a similar ethically oriented wholesaler, helps put the word out that we care how our animals are treated. Also I think Bao at AG is now QT'ing all fish 3 weeks.-Jim

[rendeyxu]

you talk too much, bagel guy.lap

[rendeyxu]

by the way what's wrong with this pic of chinese market?
are they gold fishes£¿ i don't think the fish will ever suffer given the bag is filled with O2 for a long period of time.
did you see how they bag bettas here in usa?

[sfsuphysics]

Originally posted by rendeyxu
by the way what's wrong with this pic of chinese market?
are they gold fishes£¿

now here is a really really nice fish store in Hong Kong. This was about 100 times nicer than other fish stores I would see there.

It was a comparison.

[rendeyxu]

ok so if it is nice, why 6th ave would look like a chinese fish store?
how many fish places you have been to? only in hongkong? or some place else? it's just offensive to say chinese fish store blah blah, while you only see maybe 1% of fish stores in china.

I been to many fish stores in shanghai as nice as aquarium concept, so don't know where this comment come from.

[xtremereefer]

Dont know why everyone is always trying to put down 6th ave. Like I said if you don't like the place then just don't shop there. Simple as that!

[patrickb]

Not that simple. its called simpathy for living creatures. I think its wrong to treat them the way 6th avenue does (its bad enough that we rip them from the ocean, the least we can do is prevent needless death and suffering). This thread is meant to provide a forume for people's opinions. To me, this provides an ideal place to say how much 6th avenue and stores like 6th avenue suck.

If you feel the way I do, simply not shopping at 6th avenue is not enough. I feel it is my duty to convince other people also not to shop there. Many of them (especially newbies) may not know any better and think places like 6th avenue are the norm. Hopefully this thread will inform people that 6th avenue is not the norm.

By the way, it seems like every 6 months or so we have this "6th avenue sucks" discussion. I think what we should be talking about instead is why people go there and buy from them even though they know the store sucks. It sounds like money talks and reason/compassion walks in this hobby. For experienced reefers (who know better) to say that they shop at 6th avenue because 6th Avenue is cheap and all the other stores are so expensive is lame cop out. This hobby is not cheap and nor should it be (just look at all the expense and effort it takes to get these animals to us). Taking care of these animals properly is expensive. If you want cheap then stick to freshwater.

[orientalexpress]

This hobby is not cheap and nor should it be (just look at all the expense and effort it takes to get these animals to us). Taking care of these animals properly is expensive. If you want cheap then stick to freshwater.

not really,if u think change water twice a month is expensive then is expensive,not everybody belong to a bill gate clubs here.the creatures need more of your time more then anything else,i don't want to scare the newby away by saying is expensive ,u could get around that by shopping wisely.gl lapsan

[sfsuphysics]

Originally posted by rendeyxu
ok so if it is nice, why 6th ave would look like a chinese fish store?
how many fish places you have been to? only in hongkong? or some place else? it's just offensive to say chinese fish store blah blah, while you only see maybe 1% of fish stores in china.

I been to many fish stores in shanghai as nice as aquarium concept, so don't know where this comment come from.

I personally wouldn't say that was a nice fish store either.. unfortunately I never went there, I wasn't the poster, I was just commenting on what the original person who posted the picture said about it. The picture was a little on the small side, but yes, culturally speaking here in America it typically not acceptable to have fish hanging in bags all around the store instead of in tanks. I realize there are cultural differences between the two places.

And if you would of actually read my post, you'd see I have not been to any Chinese fish stores. I simply made a mention of some stories people have told me about stores in China, and tried to make a cultural connection. Just like *I* see in china town here in San Francisco, I have seen live animals out in the street like turtles, etc, that are used as food, this is a cultural thing, they don't do that at most other stores in the US. As a result I tried to make a similar connection with the fish store.

Now you comment about others being to only 1% of the fish stores, yet you mention some nice ones you saw in Shanghai, have you also been to many other fish stores around the entire country of china? (it's quite a large place) or just in Shanghai? Ie have you been to 1% of the fish stores but it's ok, because you saw good ones.

And quite frankly if you are that easily offended because of a comparison, then maybe you should stop reading and replying to this thread.

[xtremereefer]

If everyone is concern about the simpathy for these living creatures then you guys should just give up the hobby. Every time your shopping at a LFS then your supporting the capture of these animals.......man everyone needs to take a chill pill!

[badpacket]

Originally posted by rendeyxu
you talk too much, bagel guy.lap

And you are cheap.
I'll see you at the next meeting, tell me in person.

[Tenny]

I've never been there, but if I was there I would consider buying stuff if the price was right, and the particular fish/coral i was looking at appeared healthy.

[badpacket]

Originally posted by xtremereefer
If everyone is concern about the simpathy for these living creatures then you guys should just give up the hobby. Every time your shopping at a LFS then your supporting the capture of these animals.......man everyone needs to take a chill pill!

Thats a good point, however its also rather backwards. Logically, I think everyone understands it. However in practice, you seem to be advocating that people who care about marine creatures should refrain from caring about them when they see them in a retail establishment? Does that really make sense?

I'll echo the point that threads are not mandatory to read, simply avoid clicking on it. Otherwise, if someone can't get worked up at least a little bit about poor standards of care, then maybe they should get out of the hobby?

This is not directed at the OP, just a post.

[scuzy]

then why are we in the hobby most of these creatures would do just fine living in the wilds where they should be , but now are captured living in a aquarium with no where to go. If you liek the hobby then you're supporting the capture/raising of these poor animals that could do so much better in the it's original habitat.

[Nukeproof]

I respect everyone view about how they feel about 6th Avenue. You guys have the right to comment about their poor condition for the animal, their loud music, or the lack of customer service there. In fact I would agree with all those comment. However, if you start attacking the people who elects to go there, I think that is uncalled for. Basically what I've been seeing is if you go to 6th Avenue, you are cheap. You don't know a lick about any of those people so stop making accusation about them. Everyone like to go to stores of their choice so why not leave it at that.

[orientalexpress]

first, they their bioload is way too high compared to other stores. Look at joe at UWW, he has like 3 or 4 fish in 30 gallon tank.

when the last time u went to wholesale?6TH AVE locate in richmand district,do u know how many tanks to keep all that fishes?do u know how much realstate is cost at clement st.?gl lapsan

[Coral_Geek]

Where do you go if you need a 96W-linear pin Actinic PC lamp at 9:52 PM? They always open on time and they always stay a little past the 10PM closing time. As for their prices they really are the lowest pretty much anywhere. Steve at Lucky Ocean is very competitive on price too and he should be supported. People keep stating that lfs are all charging "Top dollar" for everything they sell. I only see this at a few stores like Dolphin Pet Village or the Aquarium. For the most part the only way for many of these stores to survive the onslaught of online and mail order is to drop the profit margins and try to do some volume. 6th AVE has become very efficient this way, but All About Fish, Lucky Ocean, Natural Life and many others are working very hard for lower profits. One store showed me his wholesale price catalog and some of the dry goods he sells are actually below wholesale list price. Talk to the owners of these stores and you will see that they are not getting rich at this.