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#26
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Thanks for taking the time to do that assessment, but I have to disagree.
There are far too many factors to use a software model to "completely rule out DCS". The old rule GIGO applies. You do not have enough data to properly make that statement, IMO. You may be able to conclude that DCS is 99.9% unlikely, and your information is most certainly interesting, but you simply cannot rule it out without having more information than has been provided. If you enter the numbers into a computer it can be proven that a 5 min mile is impossible. Much like Lance Armstrong somehow produces less lactate than a normal person, making his virtually impossible uphill climbs (according to the computer models) possible, you simply cannot know how the tissues of a given person may react by using a software model.
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-Greg If you want to know - ask. But I won't promise you'll like the answer. |
#27
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My point was, that newer divers with a lack of understanding of how the effects of nitrogen absorption can accumulate may come away from this discussion with "I can never get bent from a 35ft/45min dive", and that's just not the case. If you way blow your no deco limits on a prior dive you certainly could get hit. Or if you exceed your maximum daily exposure. Or if you were drinking the night before. Or if you were excessively dehydrated. Or, or, or...
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#28
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Greg, Luminary:
In the interest of preventing divers from thinking they could never get bent at certain depths, I hereby revise my statement statement from "In conclusion, we can completely rule out DCS as a cause of Condor's physical discomfort" to "In conclusion, it would be extremely unlikely that DCS was a cause of Condor's physical discomfort based on this particular profile and the assumption that there was no previous Nitrogen loading in the tissues or that any medication/chemicals were inhibiting the exchange of gases." |
#29
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On the Bermuda dive we just went straight up from 35 ft. after being down for 45 mins. and never stopped at 15ft. for 3-5 mins. I just think thats wrong and being irresponsible. This guy owns a diving operation so why would he have me do this. Is it possible that people from Britian just do things differently? I would think PADI and SSI would follow the same techniques no matter what part of the world your in.
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#30
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#31
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Tech Diver,
I agree completely that the odds are almost nil. It's just important to also be aware of the limitations of software models. Good discussion!
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-Greg If you want to know - ask. But I won't promise you'll like the answer. |
#32
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#33
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Tech Diver... doesn't your model assume someone who is in good physical and medical health? Does it take into account those with vascular disease (diabetes, heart issues, venous disease)? I was under the understanding that people with these issues have impaired nitrogen gas release, thus increased risk of DCS over the general diving population.
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#34
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Good thread! I did drink at least 4-5 glasses of wine the night before...I know thats not good...it's probaly why I got sick as this happened once before many years ago on an ocean fishing trip in Oregon with 8 ft. swells, plus another guy who drank the night before also got sick. On the plus side the fish really started hitting and we caught 60 snappers in an hour...3 at a time! Some good chum...
Another factor could be the new wet suit...I had on a 1/2 mil skin and a 5 mil wet suit that was never worn before and over heating may have worsen the situation. What might be real comfortable at depth may overheat you struggling at the surface. Plus I felt so constricted with the suit and once I was winded I removed the snorkel and still couldn't catch my breath. It felt like a Boa constricter was choking me... |
#35
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I presume that you noticed a statement that Condor made about taking heart medication. Although I do not know the details of the reason for this, I have been assuming that it is not for any sort of vascular disease. All candidates enrolling in SCUBA training who are on any prescription medication are required to get a physician's approval for taking the class. I can not imagine any qualified physician giving a patient with such a disease the approval to go ahead. Thus my assumption. |
#36
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#37
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Well that was the day before the dive so I wasn't drinking and diving, But I did feel a little off the next day.
As for the heart disease I did have a double bypass 2 years ago and that does concern me a little. I don't mind diving to 60 ft. but a friend wants me to do some wreck diving in the ST. Lawrence to 120 ft. and I'm not willing to push my limits so I'll pass. As for my doctor allowing me to dive...the type of surgery I had does not limit me in any way. I'm in better shape than most 20 year olds and do alot of mountain climbing, hiking and biking for being 48. I really appreciate all the positive comments...Thanks George |
#38
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My assisstant for my open water dive had insulin dependent diabetes, congestive heart failure, and coronary heart disease, though he was very well controlled on medication. Still he dove as often as he could, though he could barely carry his rig to the boat/shore. Dont presume that all physicians have a working knowledge of diving physiology. (As a side point we have a small chapter in physiology texts called "Diving Physiology" and it doesn't come close to covering recreational diving). Condor, if you have had revascularization surgery in the past, I am going to presume due to a chronic disease please correct me if I am wrong, then you will have impaired gas exchange, peroid. Its great that you are in superb health otherwise, but I'd have to think long and hard before putting my signature on a release for diving on someone with new vascularture. |
#39
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Matt |
#40
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Thats exactly how I feel...one step at a time. As a hang glider pilot of 27 years I know what the risks are and if it doesn't feel right we have a saying...live to fly another day! Another is; there are old pilots and there are bold pilots...but there are no old bold pilots.
Also airplane pilots cannot fly for 48 hours after having just one or more drinks because it takes that long to be sharp again... Mental conditions should also be taken into consideration too...like just having a fight with the girlfriend or troubles at work...they all put another risk factor into anything we do. |
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