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  #1  
Old 06/20/2005, 11:40 AM
Baalz Baalz is offline
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Location: Havre de Grace, MD.
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Sucessfully reared OCC Clownfish without Rotifers

I have been breeding Ocellaris clownfish for several years now and am quite proficient at it. Lately a pair of clowns in my 180r tank started spawning, one is a wild caught and the other is one of my hatchlings.

From the beginning this pair's nests have been outstanding. Large in size and the best survival rate I have ever seen.
A few weeks ago when I pulled the tile out to hatch another full nest of 1000+ eggs I discovered my rotifers crashed.

Being out of rotifers I just fed BBS (baby brine shrimp) in the morning and evening. And to my surprise at least 50-70% of the nest has survived. They are now well past metamorphasis and I'd guess there are about 200-400 clowns.
Usually I can get about 600-800+ clowns to survive from this pair yet I am still happy with the result.

Now I am waiting for a pair of stubbies that I culled to start spawning. They are about 1.5 yrs old and should lay anytime now.
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180g SPS, 4 Soft Coral tanks, 3 spawning pairs of clowns, and 8 clown grow out tanks
  #2  
Old 06/20/2005, 02:23 PM
Luis A M Luis A M is offline
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Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina
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Well,this is awesome,a Guinness record case.Nobody could ever do it.Imagine how easy would life had been for commercial breeders if they could start clown larvae on bbs and get rid of phyto and rots!

And yet,clowns hatch so large,about the size of a guppy fry,that I always wondered why they didn´t take bbs which they do at 5 days,may be 4.

You must have found an exceptional strain...
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  #3  
Old 06/20/2005, 11:26 PM
Atticus Atticus is offline
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WHat kind of brine are you using? I have heard one strain of brine is much smaller than the other, but cannot remember which way it went.
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  #4  
Old 06/21/2005, 08:52 AM
jferg jferg is offline
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I've raised a number of different species of clowns with just Artemia. You just get a lower yeild per nest with the Artemia as opposed to the rotifers. You want to use the smallest strain of Artemia you can get. These are the ones I have used with success: http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/bri...allstrain.html .

-Jim
  #5  
Old 06/21/2005, 09:15 AM
ediaz ediaz is offline
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I have seen several species take artemia @ day 2. I don't think larvae digestive system is ready for it so soon.

I prefer the rots, at least I find it easier, have not experienced a crash in months and all I do is clean and harvest. They must be fed but there are always cheap ways to do it. v8

With the artemia, decapsulating, hatching, everyday plus with artemia you have to use/buy new cysts for every hatch.

Edgar
  #6  
Old 06/21/2005, 10:15 AM
phender phender is offline
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I was able to do this a number of years ago also, for the same reason. San Francisco Bay strain are smaller than the Great Salt Lake strain of artemia and I was hatching them twice a day to make sure they were as small as possible. I think using rotifers is easier because they don't grow too big after a day like brine shrimp do. I spent way to much time netting out brine shrimp from my larvae tank that had grown to big to eat.
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  #7  
Old 06/21/2005, 11:38 AM
Luis A M Luis A M is offline
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Amazed to hear this
I can´t imagine how many times bbs were offered to day 1 clowns and they were never reported to take them.Since Allen to Gardner,the only thing some few clowns ever take was finely powdered flake food.C-Quest even had their own recipe. But you guys say they do... To be honest,I have never tried.

Regarding extra small bs,SF Bay and a new European strain claim to be the smallest.I plan to measure eggs and instar 1 of different strains...
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  #8  
Old 06/21/2005, 05:03 PM
phender phender is offline
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Luis,
I'm not sure the day 1 clowns did take the bbs, but by day 3(when the yolk sacs ran out) some of the baby clowns were big enough to eat the bbs. I didn't get 50-70% survival though, more like 25%.
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  #9  
Old 06/21/2005, 11:33 PM
David M David M is offline
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OK I am no scientist but I think it may have more to do with chemical processes than size of prey. It seems that at least in seahorses, my main experience, certain enzymes are required to "kickstart" the gut and get the feeding/ nourishment process started. As I understand it artemia lack the enzymes, that is why rotifers are required with some species even though they can easily consume nhbbs. I would want to know what products were used to fortify/ feed these artemia that raised the clown larvae without rotifers, that is the key IMHO.

And yes, the SF Bay strain of brine shrimp is the smaller one, this is the first I've heard of a "new" strain of small artemia.
  #10  
Old 06/22/2005, 12:18 AM
rsman rsman is offline
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25% with occellaris has been done before, many times before. they are the larger of the clowns (at hatching), and only the ones with the brains to munch on a food thats at the upper limits of size, and those are the ones to survive, as for IME its clear that the ones that dont are ones that have guts that are lacking in non clear things (so what if they eat a BBS leg .... ) and IME the same is true for most clownfish deaths beyond dumb dumb moves(always gota count the dumb dumb moves... ) most young deaths are nutrition related, sometimes parental, sometimes young....

as for enzyme content it seems very wrong, (note im not talking seahorses only clowns) any enzyme content should be higher in BBS than rotifers, actually instar2's can be dangerous because of enzyme contents the new mouth/anus can be an exit for enzymes in the upper digestive track of the consuming fish those enzymes *can* harm the fish

as for the *new strain* what little reading i have done I got the impression that they were just trying to match the SF sizes has anyone heard differently??? lets see whos over there LisaP??? also I think the standard is to use an average of a number and measure newly instar1's or full adults in case anyone is comparing notes
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