Elegance Coral theory

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by zarro
Hi
Hers a pic of mine ive had now for two years , it under
two 400 wtt 14k Mh . ive got it at the top of the tank . The MH
are 18" from the top of the water ,its placed hafe way under
the tanks brase . I feed it very finely chopped up squid , octpus
i get at walmarts in the seafood depatment.

Beautiful coral.

[Bcollins111900]

I have been following this thread and it has inspired me to pick up an elegance coral but it is going to be a Aussie Elegance since they have a better track record.

[elegance coral]

Good luck and if you find a place to get Aussie Elegance corals can you hook me up? I have looked but can't seem to find one. Then I will need to talk the wife into letting me buy yet another Elegance. This would be number 12. I think she may take my card away soon.

[redFishblue]

Here's my Aussie elegence
Mine is doing well but a friend who got one a little later and his melted within 2-3 weeks.
It was an expensive loss.
So the Aussie ones can be hit and miss like the Indonesian ones I guess.

[elegance coral]

Nice coral! Can your friend be sure he had an Aussie Elegance?
Where did you get yours? It looks nice and healthy.

[redFishblue]

Yup, he got his from a shipment of Aussie corals.
I got mine from a LFS. I have seen Aussie elegences in three different LFS, with one
getting them on a somewhat regular basis. The last one I saw there was priced I believe
180 or 190 (plus tax).
I was talking with an owner of another LFS that got them in twice the past 6 months and he said half died in a month.

[Klownfish]

Are the Aussie's suppose to be from higher up on the reef? Why are they expected to do better than others?

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by Klownfish
Are the Aussie's suppose to be from higher up on the reef? Why are they expected to do better than others?

They wern't allowing corals to be collected for a long time. They just started allowing a limited number of corals to be collected. They have not been over collected there like they have in other places, so they don't need to dive to greater depths to collect them. At least that is one theory I have heard of. From what Redfishblue is saying it sounds like they may have started having problems with these corals too.
I have never had an Elegance that I knew for sure came from Australia, so I can't say if they are better or not.

[DrDNA]

This is indeed an interesting thread. I don't check the LPS forum very often and nearly missed it!
I can share a couple elegance coral observations with you as well. I have two of them, both are sitting on the sandbed about 18" under a 250w DE XM10K halide. I have had one about 5 months and the other is only three weeks old now.
The first one has doubled in size, the base is about 4" across. When I first got it, it had the typical green oral disk and tan tentacles. Now, both the oral disk and tentacles are a uniform neon green color, and the tentacles are usually more "puffier" then when it first got it and deflates most of the way at night.
The second elegans coral was purchased about 3 weeks ago. It is good sized, the base kind of zig-zags and is about 8" across in both directions. It too sits on the sandbed under the 10K halide and touches the other elegance. When I first got it, it would go through several cycles of "puffing" and deflating during the day, maybe two or three times. Recently, it stays inflated all day and deflates at night.
I feed both of them small pencil-eraser (at most!) pieces of silversides every four days to once a week. I also have their bases partially buried in the sand, and to me, they seem "happiest" when they expanded polyp itself is laying right on the sand.
I have also noticed something else, and am trying to figure out if it is "real" or not. It seems they don't inflate as much when I run carbon. I have it in a reactor and run it one day a week, and it seems they tend to not expand as much when I am running it. I do also skim heavily and run ozone.
Anyway I just wanted to share some observations with all of you FWIW.

Jeff

[DrDNA]

Here is a pic of my older elegance coral from a month ago. I will to get a pick of both of them later.

[John Kelly]

This is just speaking from my experience with Goniopora, but I bet it applies to many other corals in the way they are affected by lighting. It becomes more apparent and easier to see with LPS, but I've studied SPS corals that go through the same process. The big difference between SPS and LPS is that SPS corals have skeletal branches that provides shade for the polyps underneath, where LPS don't. Most of the tissue of LPS is directly exposed to the light; therefore, most of the tissue is directly affected.

Originally posted by DrDNA
Now, both the oral disk and tentacles are a uniform neon green color, and the tentacles are usually more "puffier" then when it first got it and deflates most of the way at night.

The coral increases the green color over a period of weeks/months to protect itself from UVR and/or too much PAR. At the same time, it loses zooxanthellae (brown color), which is necessary for skeletal growth and polyp/tentacle extension (symbiotic relationship). The slow loss of zooxanthellae can eventually result in a bleached coral. Depending on how much the coral relies on the zooxanthellae for its overall health, the loss of zooxanthellae can eventually be deterimental and there is a minimum amount that it MUST keep within the tissue in order to maintain good health over a long period of time. As Darrell (elegance coral) has found, Elegance can be burned rather quickly, which shows how sensitive they are (some of them at least) to strong light.

Originally posted by DrDNA
I feed both of them small pencil-eraser (at most!) pieces of silversides every four days to once a week.

The more zooxanthellae the coral loses, the more they will depend upon target fed food to receive nutrition. If the lighting is too strong to begin with, then it doesn't matter how much food you feed it, it will still lose zooxanthellae. The only way to help the coral regain zooxanthellae is to decrease the light levels on it while maintaining regular feedings.

Originally posted by DrDNA
I have also noticed something else, and am trying to figure out if it is "real" or not. It seems they don't inflate as much when I run carbon.

When I change out the carbon in the media bags, my Goniopora will partially retract for several days. It is a reaction to the small invisible carbon dust particles. If I don't thoroughly rinse the carbon first, the retraction reaction is worse.

[John Kelly]

Originally posted by DrDNA
Here is a pic of my older elegance coral from a month ago. I will to get a pick of both of them later.

It looks bleached.

[DrDNA]

Hi John,

Thanks for your responses. Do you think that I should move it to a section of the tank that is lit by a 14K or 20K halide? I have one end that is 10K, 14K in the middle, and 20K on the other end.

Thanks,
jeff

[John Kelly]

Originally posted by DrDNA
Hi John,

Thanks for your responses. Do you think that I should move it to a section of the tank that is lit by a 14K or 20K halide? I have one end that is 10K, 14K in the middle, and 20K on the other end.

Thanks,
jeff

That's a good question. As I understand it, Darrell has observed that certain color temperatures may be harmful, ........but at the same time 10k usually gives off higher PAR than 14k or 20k. If you wanted to experiment, you could leave it under the 10k where it is and use 2 or 3 pieces of black fiberglass door screen mesh, layered together, and place them between your lights and the water surface.



I've done lighting experiments with Goniopora under 10k and 14k and it seems to be the PAR which causes the bleaching.

[DrDNA]

Hi John,

That is an interesting idea, I have heard of people acclimating anemones that way before. I have also heard that anemones too seem to do better under 14K or 20K lights. I have found this to be true, at least in my case, with RBTAs.
Another option I may have too results from my tank being 30" wide... I may be able to slide it over to the side or corner to where it gets less direct light and more indirect. I think with some minor adjustments to the rockwork as well I can accomplish that easily.
Thanks again for the ideas, John!

[elegance coral]

Hello. Looks like yawl have been having fun without me.
I do believe it is the PAR that causes the problems. In an attempt to provide the coral with an environment that more closely resembles that which it came from, I have suggested people use higher Kelvin temp lights. We know that there are different algaes, and plants in general, that grow best in different lights. We know that there are different species of zooxanthellea (algae). I would assume that these different species would be better suited to different environments. If this is true, providing the coral with these higher kelvin temp lights, that would more closely mimic the light found at depth where most of our Elegance corals are coming from, may aid them in adapting to aquarium life.

In the pic that was posted, while the coral may have been faded a bit, my main concern would be the clown fish. I don't want to turn this into a debate over, if we should allow clown fish to use LPS's as hosts or not. However, in this pic the coral is withdrawn. When clowns use Elegance corals as a host most of them will begin to withdraw like the one in the pic. The good thing in this case may be that the clowns keeping the coral withdrawn has kept the coral from capturing as much light and therefore not getting burnt by the 10K lights. In a well expanded Elegance coral you should be able to see the oral disk. This coral is withdrawn due to the clowns to the point that only the tentacles are showing. If the clowns were removed and the coral was moved to the 14K lights it would begin to open up much more. This coral is still a relatively healthy animal in this pic. I fear that if this environment doesn't change it will not remain that way.

[DrDNA]

Yes, the clowns do use this coral as a host, but certainly not by my choice. They move between this coral and a large hammer coral, and I am on the lookout for a suitable host anemone for them, if I can ever find a healthy one. Personally, I don't want them using my LPS for a host either.
I think what I am going to do is move it out from being directly under the light to either the area of the tank that is lit by a 14K or where it will get less direct light from the 10K / actinic T5 combo.
This is definitely an interesting thread I will be bookmarking, there's a lot of good info here!

Thanks, Jeff

[elegance coral]

Thanks Jeff.
In your tank you have many different lighting environments. With a little trial and error I think you should be able to find a spot where both of your Elegance corals will be very happy.


Just to show you that this has happened to many of us, here is a pic of one of my Elegance corals being used as a host. Even this coral is somewhat withdrawn in the pic. Without knowing this individual coral you would never be able to tell it though. I ended up giving the clowns back to the LFS.
Remember you said you were going to post pics of the other Elegance you have.

[gsellers1245]

Originally posted by elegance coral
Good luck and if you find a place to get Aussie Elegance corals can you hook me up? I have looked but can't seem to find one. Then I will need to talk the wife into letting me buy yet another Elegance. This would be number 12. I think she may take my card away soon.

heres one and also a blue tips one too, but the blue tips dont have a pic
http://www.elitereef.com/cart/austra...prod_1140.html

[gsellers1245]

pic is up now

[elegance coral]

WOW! Thanks.
I like the $150 one better than the $200 one. I'll see what the wife says. Maybe if I ask real nice, or maybe I'll just get it and not tell her. Think she'll notice a new big bright green Elegance in my tank?

[DrDNA]

Okay, here are some new pics of that same elegance coral, without the clowns bugging it. What do you think of its prognosis?





Here it is next to a larger one I acquired about 3 weeks ago:

[elegance coral]

I think they are awsome! Where are you getting those things? I wish I could find some like that around here.
You can definitely see how much the older one has faded when compaired to the new one. I really think the first one is getting to much light under that 10K.
Its prognosis? With no clowns, proper lighting, and fed twice a week with small 1/4 inch pieces of shrimp or fish you may need to buy a bigger tank. No, but really, there is no reason those corals shouldn't be expanding twice that size in less than a years time. They are very healthy at this point, other than a little bleached, and you can fix that if you get it out of that bright light. Now its your job to improve on that. I think you can do it.

[elegance coral]

I just looked at those pics again. You can see the difference in expansion between when the clowns were in it and when they arn't. Without the clowns you are starting to see the oral disk showing through the tentacles, and the coral is much larger overall. Huge improvement! How long did I say it would take to double in size? I may need to take that back.

[kramgnik]

I think I would have quarantined the new one for a while before introducing it to another healthy elegance. Keep an eye out for any problems, good luck.