DSB in a bucket for nitrate control - Page 16

reefez · #**376** 05/02/2007, 07:51 PM

Not fully mature for 6 months! Holly cow!! Has anyone found a way to jump start it? Use sand from an established tank maybe? I understant it would take some time to mature and grow the beneficial bacteria. So when do you actullay start to see a decline in the nitrate? It can't just magically happen over night. Do you start to get a decline at 1 months--2months 3 months? I am seriously thinking of trying this method . I have some sand from my tank that was taken out when I moved it. Could I re-use it if I washed it out real well?

George Grogan · #**377** 05/02/2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reefez
Not fully mature for 6 months! Holly cow!! Has anyone found a way to jump start it?

I'm guessing there is just about as much "lab data" supporting the "not fully mature until 6 months theory" as there is supporting whether a RDSB even works in the first place.

Numerous people have followed Anthony's instructions exactly, and posted favorable results in this and the previous thread. Some have also posted less than optimal results. We have no way of knowing if they followed the original instructions or not. Many have suggested tweaking this, adding that, changing this... etc. Then again, some people say it is impossible to keep a "whatever it is" alive in an aqaurium, while many others have good results with the same animal. The difference? Experience? Luck? Who knows!

Personally: 5 gal RDSB started late October 2006; nitrate 10 ppm. Current nitrates: undetectable. I'm sold; won't give it up; no matter what!

My opinion: drop the bucks for new sand, set it up exactly as originally posted by Anthony Calfo, and let us know how it worked!

A little side bar on lab data: I don't have lab data that proves there is enough oxygen in the air in my office to keep me alive, yet here I am! Moral to the story: Sometimes we have to believe what we know from experience, or have seen, even when unable to prove it! And, other times, we simply have to be willing to try something new. Otherwise... same old, same old...

the other tang · #**378** 05/03/2007, 08:05 AM

Reefez, seeding and initial feeding a new dsb is the only things I can think of to jump start it. Like I said before, I am not positive of how much it actually helps but it makes sense. You can reuse the old sand, but probaby not worth it, a 60 lb bag is $3.00. Make sure you rinse the sand several times. Running a magnet through it isn't a bad idea either, youll be surprised at how much misc metal you will pick up.

LD, you are right no data to support that. Those comments come from postings of testing logs of newly set up dsb's. As you stated above the results seem to differ.

percula99 · #**379** 05/03/2007, 02:17 PM

After looking through my log book I see that I started my RDSB on:
Aug. 12/06 at 50ppm.
Sept. 4/06 at30.
Oct. 8/06 at 20.
Oct. 13/06 at 10.
Since Nov. 17/06 my readings have been consistently below 10 or undetectable.
Please keep in mind I do a 50 gallon water change on my 180 every month. I estimate that is probably at least if not more than most people do. I did that before the RDSB however and still my nitrates rose. So I conclude that my RDSB has in fact solved my nitrate problems for me.

the other tang · #**380** 05/03/2007, 03:24 PM

Thanks for the info Perc. That is very simillar to what others have posted. Did you seed or feed your in the beginning? How are you keeping deterius out of your dsb? Filter, skimmer...?

percula99 · #**381** 05/03/2007, 04:29 PM

At the beginning, seeing as I was using aragonite $$$ I started with 60 pounds. After a few weeks I added another 60 pound bag, and two weeks later I added the final 60 pounds for 180. I did not seed with any live sand. I just let it take it's course naturally. I figured I had lived with the high nitrates this long, let it just work like Anthony Calfo had said to. Even with the high nitrates, my tank did not seem to be suffering too much...yet! I keep detritus out of the RDSB by means of a sponge pre-filter on my Mag 5 which feeds the RDSB. I have to rinse it out every few days to once a week. It seems to work for me.

The one problem I seem to have with my set up is regulating the water level in the bed when I do a water change. I turn off the Mag during the water change. When I turn it back on, it has a tendency to overflow at times and I need to reset the ball valve on the Mag pump. Speaking of that, that is precisely what I am going to do right now. Time for another 50 gallon water change. TTFN.

percula99 · #**382** 05/03/2007, 08:05 PM

Well bad news for me. I just noticed my Rubbermaid Roughneck container that I am using for my RDSB is leaking from the bottom. I guess the strain of 180 pounds of aragonite in it was too much and it has split at the bottom.

Has anyone ever had or heard of this happening before?

Can anyone recommend a container that will not split over time. I really thought I was safe with this type of container.

Will I be able to scoop out the aragonite and reuse it in another container. I know there are different layers that form over time in the sand (can't remember what they are called). Can they be mixed together?

Safedad · #**383** 05/03/2007, 08:48 PM

You are not alone. I was getting ready to leave for four days Monday a week ago. My wife didn't have to tell me that the mess had to be cleaned up before I left. One of the legs had collapsed and split about a half an inch. I was at Lowes by 7am to get a replacement roughneck sump. I changed two things. I made a solid base under the tub. I also put the top of a plastic tub under my RDSB 5 gallon bucket to spread the weight around. So I hope someone has something tried and true for years.

the other tang · #**384** 05/03/2007, 09:18 PM

I had the same thing happen to a wal-mart 5g blue water container like you'd take camping. It split on the side about 4' from the mold mark. After seeing that and reading what happened to the two of you I have an idea. Builders use a product called " Great Stuff" it is an expandable foam in a can that they use to solidify the bottom of a tub. You could put down a piece of plastic shoot the bottom of the tub fill it and let the stuff harden that is about as even weight distribution as you can get. The only other idea is buy two, set one inside the other for piece of mind.

Nitro350Z · #**385** 05/03/2007, 09:20 PM

Update on my RDSB. I cant remember exactly when I set it up, but it was sometime last year, cant seem to be able to find my post for some reason.

I have a fairly (if not excessively) high bio-load for my small Nano tank. The large amount of LR takes care of the aerobic processes converting ammonia to nitrite then nitrate. Without the RDSB I'm guessing my nitrates would be insanely high, but so far they have stayed at 0.

My RDSB consists of a 5g pail filled with silica based sand and is in a closed loop powered by a small power head, there is a sponge filter on the intake that keeps most, if not all, larger detritus out.

So far I've been extremely happy with how the water quality has been in my tank, hopefully nothing will change in the future.
Planning on installing 3 pails for a large 600-700G system thats planned for the future.

Thats just my $0.02 on this subject.

the other tang · #**386** 05/04/2007, 08:43 AM

Nitro, justr to clarify. Are you saying you have a hob style feed for the rdsb? If so what container did you use, how did you plumb it? Any pics?

rforrest3 · #**387** 05/04/2007, 10:37 AM

I just set mine up on 5-2 after reading this long thread. What I did was take two cat litter containers and stack them. The top one is my fuge with cheato in it and is fed by an old 402 powerhead, this in turns overflows down into the RDSB. The pump has water flowing upwards and I can already see after two days a bunch of detritus setting on the bottom of the container. Hopefully the pods and everything will be eating that up. Time will tell.

Nitro350Z · #**388** 05/06/2007, 02:06 PM

Just took a bunch of pics, will post them really soon.

Nitro350Z · #**389** 05/06/2007, 02:33 PM

Alright Here they are. Sorry if they are a bit big.

Full Tank Shot

Pump to RDSB

Vinyl pipes

RDSB - You can see the clamping system I used, fairly simple I guess but works great. Sealed with Silicon

Return

Where it's placed

And Another full tank shot

Hope you liked it.

the other tang · #**390** 05/07/2007, 10:34 AM

That is almost exactly how i plumbed mine. From the pic it loks like your circs back up to the tank, right? If so how did you seal the bucket?

asnatlas · #**391** 05/07/2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redox
55 gallon rdsb

How is the 55gal RDSB working ?? How full did you fill it with sand... I have a 55gal barrel and was thinking about making one but was not sure if I should fill it like 1/4 way or 1/2 or even 3/4... I will be running about 1k total water vol soon if not even more should I maybe even look into adding 2x55gal barrels ??

the other tang · #**392** 05/07/2007, 11:16 AM

I think the rle of thumb is 5g dsb per 80g display vol. Quick math says 60g should be close to the right size. Remember this really depends on bioload, if you are light/heavy plan accordingly. IMO either the same drum on its side or an old 55/rubermaid would be beter, simply due to surface contact.

Nitro350Z · #**393** 05/07/2007, 05:35 PM

Yes, the way its plumbed is that it directly gets pumped back to the tank. The lid is kept in place by 2 sets of clamps which are attached to 2 metal brackets. They are arranged to form an X when looking from the top. There is wood and foam underneath it (directly above the lid, below the X) that spreads the pressure evenly. The lid and makeshift bulkheads are sealed with silicon, both inside and out.

So far its been holding great without a single problem.

Hope I didn't miss anything
HTH

the other tang · #**394** 05/07/2007, 05:49 PM

Great idea, can you post pics? I tried that using a io bucket and it was a mess.

Nitro350Z · #**395** 05/08/2007, 08:36 PM

Here are some pics. Could have made it look nicer but it works the way I have it and it's too much of a pain to take apart and re-cut wood and foam to fit perfectly if all it does is make it look cleaner.

Hope this helps.

the other tang · #**396** 05/09/2007, 04:52 PM

yes it does, I asume you made the clamps right? Looks like I'm buying lunch for the fab guys at work.

Thank You,
Rusty

greenmonkey51 · #**397** 05/10/2007, 12:30 AM

I'm going to try this on my 75g, but I don't have a sump. Would there be any problems with having the bucket above the tank then pumping water into the bucket and letting it overflow into the tank. Also is there any reason pool filter sand wouldn't work.

the other tang · #**398** 05/10/2007, 08:40 AM

If you can set it that high then there is little to no dif in feeding back to a sump, so yes you can. As for the sand it depends on the chemical make up, you'd have to verify what it is exactly. You could just go to HD and get a $3.00 bag o play sand. Rinse it 4-5 times, runa magnet through it before you wet it, sometimes you will get a bunch of metal frags.

greenmonkey51 · #**399** 05/10/2007, 10:56 PM

I suggested this to my LFS who had trouble with their system. They scoffed and said that it won't work. They think that denitrification needs oxygen to occur. Does anyone have an article they know of that would prove my point.

mr.wilson · #**400** 05/11/2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by greenmonkey51
I suggested this to my LFS who had trouble with their system. They scoffed and said that it won't work. They think that denitrification needs oxygen to occur. Does anyone have an article they know of that would prove my point.

Denitrifying bacteria are largely anaerobic, but some are aerobic in nature.

Your remote bucket will have some dissolved oxygen from the passing water.