three mosquite-bite-esque (largeish) bumps on tang.

julianp · #1 12/28/2007, 04:13 PM

Hey all,

To start: Every single "wet" item added to the tank has gone through 6 weeks of quarantine (either hypo for bony fishes or fallow for inverts/macro/rock).

That said, I have a recently purchased little 3" hippo tang who has recently been having some problems.
I've noticed a total of three bumps on his body. The first was under his eye and the other two are near the front of his body and next to the beginning of his tail fin. In appearance, they protrude up from the skin and look closest to a small human mosquito bite (e.g. definitely larger than crytocaryon or oodinium. White at the tip and more of a pale pinkish ring around the base of the protrusion.

The one under his eye "fell out" and turned into a pit that looks exactly like HLLE.
He even has a formation like the image below, though not anywhere near as pronounced (picture I found on the web... not of him).

What's confusing me, though, is I didn't know HLLE started as bumps... and does it seem normal that there are two pinkish bumps on his side (away from the face)?

Thanks in advance,
Julian

rlcline76 · #2 12/28/2007, 08:14 PM

HLLE is what I was thinking when you posted that pic.
Well, about the starting as bumps, would have to research HLLE a little more, I have read up a little on it before...I was under the impression that it starts as a lesion or a pit. I could be very wrong. In the meantime, do you have water parameters you could post? Especially nitrates, but definitely not exclusive. Also, are you using a vitamin supplement soaked into the food? Do you have a voltmeter to check for any electrical mishaps in your tank?

julianp · #3 12/28/2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rlcline76
HLLE is what I was thinking when you posted that pic.
Well, about the starting as bumps, would have to research HLLE a little more, I have read up a little on it before...I was under the impression that it starts as a lesion or a pit. I could be very wrong. In the meantime, do you have water parameters you could post? Especially nitrates, but definitely not exclusive. Also, are you using a vitamin supplement soaked into the food? Do you have a voltmeter to check for any electrical mishaps in your tank?

I just tested water parameters about 5 minutes ago and are as follows (these all stay pretty constant in my tank)

pH: around 8.25
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
API test kit.

I'm actually pretty happy with my tank (besides this tang) because this is a messy FOWLR tank (fat porcupine puffer) and my nitrates used to always run around 20-30ppm, but I've been working extra hard on husbandry over the past month (and re-did my refugium) and they now consistently stay undetectable on the API kit.

I've been studying the body bumps on the hippo and they seem to have almost receded over the last day. At this point I'm pretty sure they were a result of him getting bumped around when I moved some rock a few weeks ago.

So, what I have now is a rapidly-developing case of HLLE. It's depressing because I try to keep everything in check and feed him varied diet (all selcon/garlic extreme soaked). I don't know what to do...

I'll try to find someone who has a voltmeter, but no other fish are acting weird so I don't know if that's it either.

If anyone has any effective ways of treating HLLE, please let me know! I'm worried about him.

Thanks a lot for the help,
-Julian

rlcline76 · #4 12/29/2007, 11:27 AM

Well, since nitrates are low and you are using a vitamin supplement...(you could try another test kit or ask an LFS to test your water to be certain, I was never a fan of API)...do you have a ground probe? Anything causing the fish stress? Running activated carbon?

It's all quite "up in the air" as to what causes MHLLE. Could also be caused by a viral, fungal or bacterial infection...things you would want to treat outside of the display tank. I don't think there is one true way of curing MHLLE, you have to run through the possible causes and make adjustments as needed.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php

julianp · #5 12/29/2007, 12:42 PM

Thanks for the link. I'll read the whole thing over this evening after work.

I have no ground probe in the tank. Running carbon and rowaphos in a phosban reactor.

It was stupid to not mention this before, but one month ago I finally got an RO/DI so I did a 80% water change (lots of silicates in tap water were driving me insane with diatoms). I tried to match all parameters with the water change, but I'm sure that huge change combined with moving the rockwork around was pretty stressful. I'm going to try and get my hands on a way to check voltage and watch the tang carefully for any improvements or worsening of the HLLE. Thanks again for your suggestions.

Sk8r · #6 12/29/2007, 12:48 PM

Try soaking food in Zoe or Selcon.
And watch the feeding: I managed a purple tang that didn't like nori, didn't like seaweed, didn't go for spirulina and ate WAY too much shrimp...this seems to be counterindicated.
I traded him on to someone who reported a cure with Zoe.

Limit water changes to 20% except in life threatening emergency and then do not exceed 40%, imho.

julianp · #7 12/29/2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sk8r
Try soaking food in Zoe or Selcon.
And watch the feeding: I managed a purple tang that didn't like nori, didn't like seaweed, didn't go for spirulina and ate WAY too much shrimp...this seems to be counterindicated.
I traded him on to someone who reported a cure with Zoe.

Limit water changes to 20% except in life threatening emergency and then do not exceed 40%, imho.

It's interesting you say that because that is the exact problem I've been having with this hippo. I have a yellow tang who eats nori and other algaes all day long (I always have some on a clip), but the hippo almost never touches it unless it floats past him in tiny pieces. His favorite food seems to be "formula one for carnivores" or whatever it is called. I do soak it all in selcon, though. Maybe I can try weening him onto a more balanced diet by breaking up very tiny pieces of nori and mixing it in 50%/50% nori/formula one...

Is zoe basically the same thing as selcon or should I use both?

Also, I have a big clump of "tang heaven red" (Gracilaria parvispora) and some other macros in quarantine right now. When it's all out in 3 weeks, hopefully I'll discover that he will love the taste of that stuff.

rlcline76 · #8 12/29/2007, 04:17 PM

I use zoe with all of my fish food. It's like your basic One A Day for fish. I haven't used Selcon, but I am sure that it is practically the same. Might be half of the problem with the tang...picky eating that is. I am almost of the opinion, that a good diet and great water parameters are the cornerstone to optimal health. Stress from maybe not getting everything he needs in his diet (which seems like it is becoming your stress, as well) and having a significant change in water and overall environment may be what is causing the MHLLE. Definitely easier to treat in the display tank than chasing him around with a net. I've seen suggestions for metronidazole...I heard rumors that it is reef safe. I've never used it so I cannot concur either way.

Good luck!