Power tool recommendations

[cannarella]

I guess I should chime in. Table saws, contractor or cabinet size, are a great investment and can be the tool that you own the longest. They are dangerous if not setup properly and you know what you are doing. They are great at ripping making rabbets, dados, ect. They are OK to en extent at cross cutting. Where they decline is in cross cutting long stock. If is quite difficult to remove 1/2 inch from an 8' piece of stock on a table saw. That is where the miter saw excels. You move the blade into the stock instead of the stock into the blade.

Now you need to have permanent room for a decent table saw. Then you have to take the time to set it up properly, adjust and maintain it.

Now some observations from my experience.

Most, 95%+, of the time you do get what you pay for in tools. So Harbor Freight stuff may work but not that great and not for long. It is just down and dirty with them. Even their clamps suck. Disposable and tool should never be used in the same sentence. It should be a crime.

Best clamps are Bessy K-Body.

FesTool is top of the line. If I had the $$$ I would purchase them. I love the rip fence that Don was talking about. The new Domino joining machine looks cool. I will stick with my PC biscuit jointer for now.

Reconditioned tools are a good investment. I have a PC 333 sander and is works as good as when I purchased it 9 years ago.

Don't over look Grizzly for stationary power tools. I got a jointer from them and love it. I don't know about the portable tools though.

Quality blades are worth the investment. I still want to get the Forest WoodWorker II for my table saw.

Sawstop will realize that their technology is not worth as much as they want it to be and the price will come down. Supply and demand.

For goodness sake if you are about to use a tool and you feel that it can end with blood being shed, STOP and rethink how to do it in a safer manner.



Lastly take care of your tools. When done with them clean them up.

In the end if you are just building this room a decent miter saw and circular saw will get the job done well. Get Freud blades. They are middle of the road and will make nice clean cuts.

Hey pescadero, click on my house to see my basement sump and upstairs tank build since you are doing the same. I also documented my stand build.

[purebullet417]

my dad does alot of carpantry work and stuff for houses and rarely ever uses a table saw. mostly uses a miter saw because of how quick it is. but a table saw is good for alot of other things like cutting plywood ect. a good screw gun will also help alot

[Donw]

Originally posted by cannarella
For goodness sake if you are about to use a tool and you feel that it can end with blood being shed, STOP and rethink how to do it in a safer manner.

Here is my "it wont happen to me" lesson. That one hurt.

Disclaimer: Its nasty


http://www.home.earthlink.net/~dwacker/20%20011.jpg

[DaveBien]

Safety Glasses !!!!!!!!

[cannarella]

Originally posted by Donw
Here is my "it wont happen to me" lesson. That one hurt.

Disclaimer: Its nasty


http://www.home.earthlink.net/~dwacker/20%20011.jpg

Ahhh, you have shop teacher finger. What's the story behind it if you don't mind telling?

[Donw]

Originally posted by cannarella
Ahhh, you have shop teacher finger. What's the story behind it if you don't mind telling?

1" band saw blade, stupidity and complacency. Did the same one a month later on the table saw. Short and shorter / dumb and dumber.
When I went to CofR there were alot of short fingered guys.

Don

[pescadero]

Originally posted by cannarella
Hey pescadero, click on my house to see my basement sump and upstairs tank build since you are doing the same. I also documented my stand build.

thanks for pointing that out! its good to know that i'm not the only guy who's crazy enough to build a huge basement sump system for a 65g display tank!

[cannarella]

I call it having the infrastructure in place for a future upgrade.

But seriously, the more water volume the better. It makes dosing and adjusting easier. So when changes are made they are not drastic and don't shock the tank.

[drstupid]

if you're doing any trim work, especially crown molding, i'd get a sliding compound miter. they can function as a chopsaw, but with a good blade you can get a very clean cut in trim, and the compound mitering makes crown molding a snap (well, as much of a snap as it gets).

i have a baby makita table saw that i love. if you have the space to set up a shop, a full sized table saw is key. if you're always storing your shop and moving it to where you're working (what i do), then the baby makita is a great tool.

if you're doing a lot of trim work and aren't very good with a hammer and a nailset, then i'd recommend a cheap compressor and a finish nailer or stapler. the stapler is better for things like aquarium trim and outdoor trim, but the staples are pretty much there for good so you don't have as much room for error. porter cable sells package deals with a finish nailer and pancake compressor for like $250, totally worth it. your finished product will look a lot better.

spend $30 on a nice 1/4 sheet pad sander, those are handier than dirt.

and don't grow too attached to any cordless tool. the batteries lose their ability to hold a charge in a few years, just in time for the manufacturer to have a totally new line of batteries in production. they have maybe a 5 year useful life span, make sure you plan that in to your purchase price (i.e. if you're not going to use it that much, buy a cheap one, it's not going to break before the batteries fail you).

[Norboo]

So, what is a good table saw to invest in?

[Donw]

Originally posted by Norboo
So, what is a good table saw to invest in?

Powermatic would be my first choice. They have entry level contractor models that are affordable. If you can find a old used unisaw that would be even better. I would not buy anything from someplace HD or lowes. You can spen just a little more and get quality. HD and lowes buy a pricepoint design custom made to be less expensive to be sold in home centers. So the cheapest jet or delta you buy at lowes is not the same saw you would get a somplace like rockler.

Don

[BeanAnimal]

The Jet and Grizzly saws are not bad either. I also second the old unisaw.

If all else fails look for an old crapsman and add to it:

1) Trunion alignment set screws
2) Aftermarket fence (Bessy, Jet, Incra, Excalibur, whatever)
3) Machined pulleys and a link belt
4) Bigger motor if you can find one cheap.
5) Larger tilt and lift cranks

With some thought and a bit of care, you can build one heck of a nice cabinent saw from a basic crapsman.

[cannarella]

All good points Bean.

If you purchase a used saw, don't worry about surface rust on the table. It can be sanded out with 220 on an orbital sander with light pressure. Wipe clean with Acetone and coat with Renaissance Wax http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/i...OD&ProdID=1304 A little goes a long way. It is great for table saw tops, jointer beds, ect.

[Donw]

Originally posted by cannarella
All good points Bean.

If you purchase a used saw, don't worry about surface rust on the table. It can be sanded out with 220 on an orbital sander with light pressure. Wipe clean with Acetone and coat with Renaissance Wax http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/i...OD&ProdID=1304 A little goes a long way. It is great for table saw tops, jointer beds, ect.

Just to add to the table comment. You wont find a table saw with a dead flat top unless you pay alot. Alot of folks seem to think this is a big issue and is with most of the japanese saws like jet and grizzly. They are easily resurfaced by any automotive machine shop for less than $50.

Don

[cannarella]

Originally posted by Donw
Just to add to the table comment. You wont find a table saw with a dead flat top unless you pay alot. Alot of folks seem to think this is a big issue and is with most of the japanese saws like jet and grizzly. They are easily resurfaced by any automotive machine shop for less than $50.

Don

Good point. That is why you woud purchase a Powermatic. Mirror finish on the table. They are beautiful. I never heard of taking the top to an auto machine shop to flatten them. Can they machine the sides square for the extensions? Shoot even machine the extensions square so they bolt up even to the sides without shimming them.

[Donw]

Originally posted by cannarella
Good point. That is why you woud purchase a Powermatic. Mirror finish on the table. They are beautiful. I never heard of taking the top to an auto machine shop to flatten them. Can they machine the sides square for the extensions? Shoot even machine the extensions square so they bolt up even to the sides without shimming them.

Yup, Ive never had shims on a extension. My jet had to be resurfaced. My powermatic was perfect but its a cabinet saw, the contractor ones may need some work. My old unisaw 5hp monster is also perfect but it was made before delta started importing.
Good machine shops will make your tables perfect and the sides square to the top. I use Waterhouse engines for all my work but any shop should be able to fix you up.

Don

[BeanAnimal]

I was never that concerned with a dead nuts flat top. I have been known to take 150 grit to the rust if I can't find a sheet of 220

Than again... I don't own a unisaw so I don't lose to much sleep over it.

[scbadiver]

When I bought my table saw I spent a lot of time researching for the "best" saw. After I decided on the that, I looked for one I could afford. The saws you all mention certainly are some of the best out there but they sure do cost a lot. I actually ended up buying the saw from HD. They have a nice table saw with many of the features of the more expensive ones, and a lifetime warranty for about $550. I like the table extensions being cast like the top, a pretty good fence (can rip up to about 34 inches I think), and seemingly more than enough power for my projects. JMO but for the money I have had no complaints at all about the saw.

[BeanAnimal]

What most folks miss is the difference that a good fence system can make. The other features are peripheral to the fence. If the fence is a PITA to set, then the saw is a PITA to use. A good fence does not need nudged, bumped or banged each time it is set. A good fence does not need checked each time it is set.

Whatever "cheap" saw you get, at least ensure that you can upgrade to a good aftermarket fence. Avoid saws integrated fence systems. The saw table should have flat front and back edges, not a molded in "groove" or "channel".

A $300 fence on a $200 saw makes more sense than a mediocre fence on a $500 saw.

[Donw]

Originally posted by scbadiver
When I bought my table saw I spent a lot of time researching for the "best" saw. After I decided on the that, I looked for one I could afford. The saws you all mention certainly are some of the best out there but they sure do cost a lot. I actually ended up buying the saw from HD. They have a nice table saw with many of the features of the more expensive ones, and a lifetime warranty for about $550. I like the table extensions being cast like the top, a pretty good fence (can rip up to about 34 inches I think), and seemingly more than enough power for my projects. JMO but for the money I have had no complaints at all about the saw.

The powermatic model 64 starts at $699 before rebates or sales. You wont come even remotely close to that quality at HD. The few bucks less that you spend on the ridged really doesnt make it a good value. The fence on the rigid is not so rigid and leaves alot to be desired. The oem blade is terrible. The tefc motor is also not a good choice for a table saw.
After the usual minimum $50 rebate, replacing the blade for a decent one you only save about $50 and still need to upgrade the fence and motor to even come close to the same quality.

Don

[pescadero]

Originally posted by cannarella
I call it having the infrastructure in place for a future upgrade.

But seriously, the more water volume the better. It makes dosing and adjusting easier. So when changes are made they are not drastic and don't shock the tank.

infrastructure in place for a future upgrade? great minds think alike!

i'm actually going to "upgrade" by adding another tank so that i have a common sump for both of them. although i don't have room for the great big tanks that i really want, i do have enough room for a couple of medium-sized tanks. thanks again for the link. i'll be revisiting your thread when its time to do the plumbing.

[cannarella]

I love my unifence. I set it on a number and it cuts it every time.

Here is how I got my new Unifence for $150. Go to a reputable woodworking store that sells top of the line stationary tools like the $2000 Unisaws and Powermatics. A lot of times Unisaws come with Unifences but the customer will upgrade it to an after market Biesemeyer. So the store had a couple Unifences in unopened boxes from where customers upgraded and didn't take the Unifence system since they did not need it. I knew that new Unifences went for and offered significently less knowing they they would rather sell it for something instead of takig up space in the back.

[pescadero]

back to the original thread topic, i think that those who are serious about woodworking all share the opinion that there's some false economy related to buying the less expensive tools if you're going to be doing any sort of fine woodworking. IMO the tools that they sell at the home stores are geared more toward the rough-in contractors and DIY home users than toward finish carpenters or cabinet makers. knowing the difference comes with experience, and its hard to fault the casual woodworker who is trying to get started on a budget and opts for the cheaper tools. but like anything else, while it seems like it will cost more to buy the more expensive quality tools in the beginning, its probably cheaper in the long run.

WRT craftsman table saws, old craftsman table saws are great. i have an old postwar craftsman table that's older than i am. these saws are actually very good quality saws, and they're available on the used market very cheaply -- i have even foundthem on the side of the road! the motors in them are outstanding. you would be amazed by what it would cost to find a comparable replacement motor today, or to buy a modern saw that's similarly equipped with a heavy table and a high horse motor.

[Donw]

Alot boils down to skill. A poorly made saw is difficult for a casual woodworker to produce great cuts. A good saw makes all the difference in the world. Now thats not to say you cant produce great work on what some may concider junk. One of the greatest woodworkers in the world Dave Shaw used only a ryobi bt3k.

Don

[cannarella]

I bet he spent a lot of time setting it up.