Telling differences in juvenile harlequin tusks

[cbear]

Just wondering if anyone can tell me the difference between an australian JUVENILE and Indo Pacific JUVENILE harlequin tuskfish. There is one at the LFS they have had for 2 weeks and it is a juvenile. THey said the other older ones are australian caught (blue coloration) but they are not sure when I asked them for a certainty if the 3"-4" juvenile was. IS there a way to determine the difference between the juveniles from austr. and indo.? I don't need a link to fishbase, been there. Thanks!

[majestic sea life]

isnt it blue teeth for AUS

[cbear]

No, all have red teeth. Aust. have blue instead of white in the back part of the body.

[Torno]

I believe Austrailian tusks have more black coloration towards the bottom of them. Their colors are also more "vivid".

[flyingace2005]

I am pretty sure that if you have a small HT, that it is indo. I was told by numerous people that it is almost imposible to get small Aussies. The way that you tell the diference is that the Australian have a red line on the end of their tail.

Australian:




Indo:

[SDguy]

Originally posted by flyingace2005
I am pretty sure that if you have a small HT, that it is indo. I was told by numerous people that it is almost imposible to get small Aussies.

Is that due to location or fish species? Just because, I've noticed that with aussie copperband butterflies....I've only seen them a good 5" or so, never small juvi's. Just an observation.

[LRS078]

Easy enough with time.... the indo specimens die for no other explicable reason after 1-6 months.

Buy an aussie or don't bother IMO. As far as telling the difference, I'd hopefully trust the LFS or internet site but failing that the aussie's have more black towards the tail section when younger and very blue'ish teeth.

Hope this helps....

[cbear]

Thanks for the insight! I was under the impression that both had blue teeth. Or does the indo NOT have blue teeth when young and they color up later.

Doesn't matter right now, since my friends daughter was feeding my tank when I was gone for 10 days and all but 5 fish lived. Found out she has an iguana and they carry salmonella.

She wonders if just washing her hands and not her arm when she had to get something that dropped in the tank.

I lost 15 fish. all of which I have had from the beginning, never killed anything! My solor fairy wrasse was my biggest saddening loss as he let me pet him!

I am so bummed out! My 8 month experiment with a midas blenny and 3 lyre tail anthias has been destroyed too!

WOW! Sucks to be me.......or them

[LRS078]

I'm so very sorry.... Especially when going though something like that, turns one of your favorite things (looking at tank) into something depressing.

[gallivanmk]

All have blue teeth. The difference between the two is simply that ythe Australians have more defining colors. The colors are a little deeper.

[LRS078]

true gallivanmk, all DO have blue teeth, but from the ones I've seen the aussies are noticeably more vibrant. Hard to tell in pics, easier to spot in person. Colors are the other indicator but again, pics can mislead. If you see two specimens in the same system its easy to tell but if you are talking two different systems its harder. Lighting, SG, stress, etc all can skew...takes a sharper eye.

[gallivanmk]

I agree that the aussies were more vibrant, I just used the word "defining." But vibrant works too. The colors definitely stand out more in the aussies. I agree, you really have to see them next to each other to tell any difference...

[DrChristianTroy]

I have to make something clear no matter they have said the red margin on the end of tail is found in indo pasific variety and body base color is slightly yellowish in indos contrary aussies have massive white tail and bright white body color,on the other hand aussie body darkens towards the tail that is not seen clearly in indos.....Many other tips can be given ,these are the main points.No matter indo or aussie both are really coolfishes only problem is indo tusk are captivated by arsenic use and arsenic causes detrimental effect on long term in our tanks.........I wish you good luck cool fish i like mine,very peacefull,alive fish;it is not safe for invertebrates but can be tankmate for even smaller fishes(mine lives with almpnd sized 5 fire angel fishes for 8 month never seen any agression from tusk)

[fantastic4]

Thanks for the posts on the differences.

DrChristianTroy, if I post a picture of mine, would you be able to tell? Mine has characteristics of both! Not sure if this is becuase of juvi stage or, teenager stage or adult stage or lighting?

If you have the indo kind, and he eats like a trigger (a pig!), is he still doomed months from now?

If I lose my tusk, I will be so sad, he's my favorite fish ever

[fantastic4]

Are there any other bullet proof ways to tell the difference? It seems as if every other method I read is contrary to the other.

Quote:
"As an aside, it occurred to me that an aspect of this might explain what I consider a myth among marine aquarists: that tuskfish from Australia are more intensely colored than those from the Philippians. Over the years, I have seen many tuskfish come into the holding facilities from these two collecting areas, and the variation in color intensity to my eye was the same for both locations. It is true that there was greater short and long term survival for those collected from Australia, but that had to due with superior collecting and shipping practices. For commercial reasons, aquarists were told that a brightly colored (primary) male came from Australia, and commanded a higher price. In other words, any intensely colored tuskfish had to come from Australia, something that I do not believe to be true.
"
By Terry Siegel
http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquarium...id=123&search=


Thanks,

FYI

Check out these sites on the chars of Tusk (Indo Vs. Aus)
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fi...aciatafaqs.htm

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fi...on/faciata.htm

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tuskidfaqs.htm

[fantastic4]

If color is the main difference between the two, then the following URLs are the best I have seen

The Australian has vivid colors of orange and striking red and blue markings -- well defined. Notice the face.

http://www.vividaquariums.com/10Expa...Code=01-4120-S



The Indo is a bit blotchy on each color and not as well defined.

http://www.vividaquariums.com/10Expa...ode=01-4119-10

But who knows, maybe they come both ways from both areas and catching techniques are the reasons behind the fatalities?

[DrChristianTroy]

Second one is an subadult look at the point on the dorsal fin

[DrChristianTroy]

I respect Terry Siegel;he may be right but that does not change great things, means that still the aussies are primary males and sec. males and females are named by lfs as indo tusks, i think that is something that must be cleared; next month i am going to try to keep 2 tusks in the same tank 1 indo and 1 aussie(now i have only 1 aussie with long nose hawk fishes in my 450 L reef tank) i am not mad or something ;the tank is divided into 2 spaces with a piece of plexyglass today... i will tell you what happened next month if the indo would came without problem, stay connected.... :fun1: or we are going to see....

[DrChristianTroy]

Lastly the spot on the dorsal fin is a caracteristic of juveniles and subadults, it is a pseudo eye.

[fantastic4]

DrChristianTroy, I'm following this thread, Tusks are amazing! Please post your progress.

Q:
Do juvi's gain vivid coloring as they mature?

[DrChristianTroy]

I can say yes they get much more vivid and broad color patter as they became adults.I don t have a photo of mine in my gallery for now but soon, may be tomorrow i will add some photos of mine; i think that their color are going to be much more vivid as they meet each other(the 2 tusks) all we are going to watch and learn but under controled experimental circumstances; i dont want to take risks and any death in my tank, i like especially these tusk buddys.

[SW1TCH]

Also going to tag along cant wait to see some pics. My next fish is going to be a tusk.

[Confooseld]

Originally posted by flyingace2005
I am pretty sure that if you have a small HT, that it is indo. I was told by numerous people that it is almost imposible to get small Aussies. The way that you tell the diference is that the Australian have a red line on the end of their tail.

Australian:




Indo:

You got that backwards. It's pretty easy to tell once you know what to look for. Any black scales on the orange stripe/face means indo pure colors mean aussie. I've also never seen a small Aussie though I suppose it could happen.

[cbear]

Well, I traded 15 corals for a juvenile tusk! As far as coloring goes, from all the pictures I have seen, it does seem that the Aussy has a bluish-black "draping" of color over it's back and the indo has MUCH more white in it's white stripes as the stripe moves toward the dorsal. I have had mine (juvenile) for about 6 weeks and eats like a pig. I assumed it was an aussy because it was already getting a "shadow" of bluish-black draping on its back, but I do not think it has gotten more defined yet. I am noticing a faint red line on the back of it's tail now, and there is a yellow line in the center of the white stripes on part of the body. Looks like marine center's picture for harlequin aussy. That pic shows the red on the back of the tail:


http://www.marinecenter.com/fish/wra...uskaustralian/

One supplier said the collection proceedures are a lot better than they were, but time will tell. He is not aggressive at all, though I noticed a few less snails. Hey if that is what will help him grow and acclimate, no big deal. Funny the nassarius snails are choosing to come out ONLY at night, when before they came out when ever I put food in! lol! They must KNOW!!

Right now my 6" hippo tang is his/her constant companion! The hippo is growing at a much faster pace! Little bit of a butt head at the mollies and chromis (hippo tang).

Back to my tusk.......... I will keep you all posted as to his/her color change. The tusk still has the two juvy eyes on the dorsal and eats constantly.

PS: You do NOT want to buy one under 3"........ their metabolism is insane fast and most die from starvation. As it is mine was 4" and eats constantly!

[cbear]

OH, one more thing, I noticed one of the tusks have a wider white stripe under the eye and the other is thin. Mine has the wider white line and the red (more like red/pink) on the tail is faint and covers a wider area, not a pin stripe.