Help with Water Softener

rwessels · #1 12/18/2007, 01:58 PM

I just put a Water Softener in and had a few questions for you experts - hint AZDesertRat.

First, I have no idea about the effect on my RO/DI system. It appears to have raised my TDS from about 475 to 575. I am using Potassium instead of Sodium as someone told me that it works better for RO systems. Is that true? Even if the TDS is higher will that be better for the membrane?

Also, there was a setting for hardness - I can't remember if it was grains or something else, but the system defaulted to 25. Should I raise that?

AZDesertRat · #2 12/18/2007, 04:20 PM

I use sodium myself so I cannot answer your question on potassium. I found when I added my softener my TDS stayed about the same as it was, 800+. TDS is going to change somewhat due to storms and runoff causing changes in treatment techniques and chemicals used to treat the water at the Municipal WTP.
Hardness is expressed in "grains per gallon". One grain is equal to 17.1 parts per million. Divide your tap water calcium hardness ppm by 17.1 and that should give you your setting.
Take a look at the City of Phoenix Water Quality report here:

http://phoenix.gov/waterservices/qualre06.pdf

and you will see they show it to be about 18 grains hardness. I find this a little optomistic as they report the highest TDS they found to be 812 when most of us exceed that on a daily basis.
I think I have my softener set at 20 myself and it seems to work well without using too much salt.

rwessels · #3 12/18/2007, 06:14 PM

Thank you!

918ReefCpl · #4 12/18/2007, 09:55 PM

What brand of Softner are you using? We were looking at the Waterboss from Home Depot and also using KCl (Potassium) instead of NaCl(sodium)...being doing some research and no clear winner in the softner dept? AzDesertRat your input too please?
thanks

30reef · #5 12/19/2007, 12:58 AM

I use Morton Systemsaver (in the yellow bag) in our Kenmore softener. I also have it set to 35. If I set it any lower, we exhaust the resin before it regenerates. Just an FYI if anyone wants to know why you have to set the hardness, the softener has a flow meter on the output and knows how many gallons have been treated, it also knows it's capacity for removing hardness causing minerals, so it uses this info to determine it's regenerating frequency. If the unit is programmed to think the raw water is less hard than it really is, then it will exhaust it's resin before a cycle. And vice versa, the latter will also waste salt. If you guys already knew that, nevermind. My unit is a 35k and works well for a family of 2 or 3, it regenerates about every 4 days. So 3 bags of salt lasts a few months.

AZDesertRat · #6 12/19/2007, 09:01 AM

My unit is a 32k Kenmore from Sears. Its pretty hard to beat their prices and quality. They seem to have them on a really good sale all the time. I also use the Morton Systemsaver salt in the yellow bags.

gcfiend · #7 12/19/2007, 10:03 AM

I'm currently leasing mine until I figure out what I need in terms of grains. Mines a 100K unit and there isnt anything comparable out there that I can buy from stores like HD, Lowes, Sears.

Do I really need 100K? How can I determine the right size softner, cause I really hate leasing the unit.

rwessels · #8 12/19/2007, 10:08 AM

I think I have the same thing as AZDesertrat. It was about $600. It was their second best one.

azmarine · #9 12/19/2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gcfiend
I'm currently leasing mine until I figure out what I need in terms of grains. Mines a 100K unit and there isnt anything comparable out there that I can buy from stores like HD, Lowes, Sears.

Do I really need 100K? How can I determine the right size softner, cause I really hate leasing the unit.

Finally something I can talk intelligently to

No, you don't need a 100k grain unit at all. Those are the ones that places like kinetico, and so forth sell.

If you needed Lab-Grade Softwater, sure, but unless you're building PCB's (Printed Circuit Boards) in your home, go to sears, buy the $500 unit they have on sale for X-mas, and have them come install it, you already have the softwater loop (1/2 the cost already)

Or if you're mildly handy, you can plumb it yourself, I did mine, only took a couple of hours. And I didn't even burn the house down

Leasing sux

gcfiend · #10 12/19/2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azmarine
Finally something I can talk intelligently to

No, you don't need a 100k grain unit at all. Those are the ones that places like kinetico, and so forth sell.

If you needed Lab-Grade Softwater, sure, but unless you're building PCB's (Printed Circuit Boards) in your home, go to sears, buy the $500 unit they have on sale for X-mas, and have them come install it, you already have the softwater loop (1/2 the cost already)

Or if you're mildly handy, you can plumb it yourself, I did mine, only took a couple of hours. And I didn't even burn the house down

Leasing sux

Loop and plumbing are in so all I really have to do is change the unit. I have a home with 2 adults and 2 kids who love to take long showers and baths (Does square footage matter?). Do I just buy the largest unit they sell?

AZDesertRat · #11 12/19/2007, 08:21 PM

My unit only regenerates about once a week at most. I have it set to regenerate after 2 AM if needed so it does not disturb anything.

gcfiend · #12 12/19/2007, 08:38 PM

double post

gcfiend · #13 12/19/2007, 08:42 PM

Thanks for your replies. Time to go softener shopping!

30reef · #14 12/19/2007, 10:39 PM

Bigger and smaller units will perform exactly the same. Smaller ones will just regenerate more often. I think any unit between 30 and 50k is adequate.

Water softeners are really cool, they allow super sudsy showers and super clean dishes from the DW. Oh another FYI I was thinking of, always set it to regenerate in the middle of the night when no one is using any hot water. When it cycles, it puts the loop in bypass so any hot water that is used allows the water heater to fill with hard water. Kind of a bummer for a few days until it is purged with soft again. But I suspect many of you all knew that so again, nevermind.

Hey AJ, do you have yours set to "clean" upon regeneration? I have turned mine off, it uses lots of water to do this. Also, do you use any type of Iron remover anually in yours? I have been told it will prolong the life of the resin if it is used once a year. I am not aware of excessive Iron in our tap water though. (I guess I answered my own question there)