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#27
12/31/2007, 02:38 PM
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Wow, I remember reading about Hop's experience with these but never really investigated "what" they were. I now look at my tank and see that I have several (100) of these snails. They go right along with the hand full of majanos and the two or three aiptasia that inhabit my tank. Top it all off with some bristle worms and a bang growth of coraline!
I will now add these things to my "to eradicate" list! Kris
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A quote from my daughter Logan (after discussing "salt in wounds") "Yeah, and that's why you don't go swimming after you get bit by a shark" |
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#28
12/31/2007, 03:21 PM
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Just fill it full of freshwater and be done with it!
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Pete |
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#29
12/31/2007, 03:57 PM
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Syrinx, when you say eating them out of their tubes, do you mean it literally removed them from the tube? Did the vermetid die at that point? The shrimp may have just been feeding on the mucus that the snails spread.
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#30
12/31/2007, 05:04 PM
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I found this article:
http://www.bioone.org/perlserv/?requ....0.CO%3B2&ct=1 It describes the life-cycle of the vermetid. I wonder if there is some chemical susceptibility while they are in their juvenile stage. I was thinking of how ich can be killed chemically once it has hatched from its cyst. The only other lead I found was on a wiki about fouling communities. It said "Common predators on and around fouling communities include small crabs, starfish, fish, limpets, chitons, and other gastropods." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fouling_community It might be helpful to identify the individual vermetid species that we are being plagued with. |
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#31
12/31/2007, 06:07 PM
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The book Im reading says they should be culled (slaughtered) regularly to keep the numbers in check. With no natural predators in your tank the job falls upon you. Like Aptasia left unchecked they take over. You say to many to do the above recommended well I guess you try experimenting on eradications and maybe wipe out your tank or start over. I hate to be the one to say it. I've learned to live with them,useful for propagation.If I was you wage war roll up your sleeves and start smashing,they are reproducing as you read.I also read that the eggs are incubated by the female in a mantel cavity or in capsules attached on top the tube's opening. If it makes you feel better I have over 500lbs of infested rock to deal with.
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#32
12/31/2007, 07:28 PM
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I'm sure there is an easier solution than "smashing". you mention "with no natural predators in your tank". Can't we find some natural predators that will fit in a smaller tank? I'm sure at some point people were sitting around trying to figure out a solution to algae problems in their tank. Some of them said, oh well there's nothing I can do about it other than scrubbing on it constantly and learning to deal with it, and others put some hermits in their tanks and never had to touch the stuff. It just seems like there is a solution to the vermetid problem and it just hasn't been discovered yet, or isn't well known.
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#33
12/31/2007, 08:58 PM
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The problem is yes you can find lots of predator but were looking for reef safe one witch limits the pool also small tanks mean small fish now even more limiting,then you take whats left and you pretty much have a undiscovered species or start manually eradication. Usually the vermetid get out of control because of nutrient control issues.A increase in their numbers is a good indication of water quality and available food conductive to their increased presence. And jargonMan has a 5.5nano so what 10lbs rock...like I said start smashing if you want them out. Then change of check for poor skimming inadequate water changes,overfeeding,ect Or you keep searching and some LFS will sell you a vermetid eating nudi for 35$.I know I sound like a D#@$ ,just keepen it real
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#34
01/01/2008, 08:44 PM
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tell me more about this vermetid eating nudi...$35 would be a steal...ha
I just don't think you can ever eliminate them all by smashing. In fact I have taken a small screwdriver and stabbed it deep into three of these guys before, completely crushing them, and leaving a 1/2" deep hole. the next day there was a mucus web coming from inside the hole. Smashing is not the answer. And as JargonMan pointed out, if you don't get them all they'll be back in two months. I believe this thread is for figuring out a way to eliminate them, not control them. Last edited by jjcool; 01/01/2008 at 09:08 PM. |
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#35
01/01/2008, 10:51 PM
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well when you put it that way then my next suggestion would be instead of glue I'd try epoxy or speedglue witch is like a cement based glue, but it's real easy to work with.but like you said they come back if you don' get them all.Hope you find the answer.
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#36
01/02/2008, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
I agree with you on the mucous- hence the anecdotal comment. It did look like he was going and diging them out though. I have seen populations come and go in many tanks. There is often a correlation between the number of these snails and other "pest" invertabrates. I have found by limiting floating detritus, fish food and whatnot this helps limit the population both of the snails and the aptasia. It is interesting how these things can be a couple in everyones tank- or an outbreak of biblical proportion. |
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#37
01/02/2008, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
you might want to put the 'handful of majanos' at the top of your eradication ASAP list - majanos are not in the same category as the others on your list. for reference see http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...5&pagenumber=2 Last edited by WarrenAmy&Maddy; 01/02/2008 at 12:55 AM. |
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#38
01/02/2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
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#39
01/03/2008, 08:22 AM
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from what I've read it appears that they mate by releasing the sperm into the water and then catching it on their webs. If we could somehow prevent them from doing that then maybe smashing them would become an option. I thought about turning up the flow so they couldn't make webs, but then I read they like high flow and live in pumps and pipes. Maybe with a peppermint shrimp feeding on the mucus they would reproduce more slowly? Any ideas on other ways to stop reproduction?
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#42
01/03/2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
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#43
01/03/2008, 03:15 PM
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Here's my story. I heard having them meant your water conditions in the tank is excellent. Well, I had these snails all over my rocks and I didn't like it. A few of them would have been ok. Anyways, a couple of years ago when my tank was stable, I tried manual removal but they kept coming back. However, since then, I've been battling hair algae. One thing I noticed is that I have very little snails now. Probably only a few are left if I tried looking for one. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the water quality or hair algae. I'm happy the snails are pretty much gone but I really hate the hair algae more. The good news is that I figured out why I am having hair algae and the are slowly disappearing. So in the end, I'm getting rid of both problems. I just hope the snails don't come back.
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#45
01/03/2008, 10:52 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by o.c.d.
Usually the vermetid get out of control because of nutrient control issues.A increase in their numbers is a good indication of water quality and available food conductive to their increased presence. And Then change of check for poor skimming inadequate water changes,overfeeding,ect (this was basically what Anthony Calfo & Rob Fenner had in Reef Invers Essential Guide.) Sprung and Delbeek also wrote, "Otherwise they are harmless, and their proliferation indicates the aquarium is healthy." Then I found the mast info in The Modern Coral Reef Aqua.Fossa Nilsen, they have the most info found,they have 11 photos and talk about the different Genus,They reccommend they culling to keep them in check, and qoute "One reason why these snails thrive in coral reef aquarium is the absence of predators" what I havent found is anything about killing zoos or causing any problems other that impeding water in pipes. Has anyone else seen the mucus strands kill any thing? I've kept zoos and vermetids in the same tank and never had any problems.And when I blow the detritis of the rocks I can see the webs everywhere touching all corals, to me when they catch the detritis they are helping clean up. Killing anything with mucus strands I doubt. 
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#46
01/04/2008, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Kris
__________________
A quote from my daughter Logan (after discussing "salt in wounds") "Yeah, and that's why you don't go swimming after you get bit by a shark" |
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#47
01/04/2008, 06:13 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by o.c.d.
Quote:
 Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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#48
01/04/2008, 10:07 PM
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That is a interesting study,I wouldn't call it proof either,Just the fact that they removed the corals to weigh them then outplanted .Makes me wonder what impact the removal process and the location change would have on growth or health of coral. Over 7 weeks the growth was monitered then 8 months the survival rate was checked. Wow growth over 7 weeks, that almost 2 months.Then comparing to inshore and offshore.Was the water quality from inshore and out taken into effect? That study is very suspect to me testing the growth rate dosen't even make sence why wouldn't they test the mucus itself? Then test the effect on coals in a monitored closed environment.Good test for a reef geek to try But just from what I see in may aquarium coral (Monti)growing all around the vermetids
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#49
01/04/2008, 10:23 PM
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I also have zoos that climb up the verms tubes,Real easy to prop zoos.I really don't see growth issues my Monti's grow way to fast and have to be propagated regularly.But testing something like growth rates in wild coals to many other factors to take in.Vermetid are very understudied and need to be looked at much closer.I'm sorry to doubt what anyone has said about killing corals but I have to question Vermetid or Husbandry it's easy to blame verms and not take in other factors if anyone else has witnessed coral decline or death from vermetid please speak up.
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#50
01/04/2008, 10:39 PM
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i remember the piece of live rock that i got that had the first one on it and at the time had no idea they would eventually end up every where one of my astreas almost looks like an urchin with all of them stickin off of it..
off topic but anyone ever try to get something cool to grow on a snail, like zoos green star polyps or encrusting sps? |
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