Live Rock to Canada?

leheath · #1 10/29/2006, 03:24 PM

I am taking down my two SW tanks due to a move to Canada. I have sold the LR from one since I plan to use it as a FW tank after the move, but was planning to take the LR from the other tank with me. Has anyone tried this? Is it going to cause trouble at the border? Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Lorraine

j0tca · #2 10/29/2006, 04:11 PM

I live in Montreal and once bought 50 lbs of live rock in New York then drove it back. There was no problem but honestly, I didn't tell the guards exactley what it was; they were happy enough that is was just rock.

In transporting the rock, it's enough to use water soaked newspaper in a sealed bin rather that fully submerging them.

HTH
Will

leheath · #3 10/29/2006, 04:15 PM

Hmmm...Do you think the soaked newspaper would be sufficient for 5-7 days because that is how long it will take me to get from here to there?

I guess my concern is if they look inside the bins and won't let it in, then what happens?!

Cprowler · #4 10/29/2006, 06:04 PM

I may be wrong but I don't think Live Rock is restricted, here is a link to check it out. Good luck.... Link

I would just drive across and take the chance, but that's me.

What city are you going to? If it's in the west this site will be useful. Link

leheath · #5 10/29/2006, 06:17 PM

I am moving to Sault Ste. Marie in Ontario. Unfortunately, I checked on a Canadian Forum and apparantly all LR is technically CITES II listed and needs an export permit (but not an import permit). If they don't ask and I don't tell them it is LR, I would be fine, but if they ask and I don't have a permit, then it will be a big problem and I am not sure I am willing to take the risk.

Lorraine

Cprowler · #6 10/29/2006, 07:02 PM

Ok, yeah it comes down to a roll of the dice and risk losing your LR. It's probably best to sell it and get new stuff when you get there. That's too bad, I looked in your gallery and you have some nice stuff by the looks of it.

Your moving from AZ to ONT...ouch. Are you originally from there or are you going for a job or something...what's the deal?

jerf · #7 10/29/2006, 07:13 PM

How much live rock are you bringing over? I think a CITES permit is about $200. Live rock here is about $6/lb CDN. If you think you'll save enough money with the rock you have, then get the permit and come over. Otherwise, sell it and buy new stuff when you get here.

Personally, I wouldn't risk sneaking it over. Customs can confiscate your car or hit you with heavy fines.

Unfortunatly, the Soo isn't the reef capital of Canada, but you're not terribly far from Toronto, which is. You'd probably want to make a day trip to TO to get your marine fix.

thatguy · #8 10/29/2006, 07:36 PM

I tried to bring a bunch of rock across the border once and got in a lot of trouble... Oh, we're talking about something else

I wouldn't think risking it is a good idea. It is going to depend on the agent you get at the border and what kind of day they are having. Besides, the die off you have after 5 days would make your car smell like crap.

Just get new rock in Canada. It will give you a chance to meet reefers in your area.

leheath · #9 10/29/2006, 10:30 PM

Cprowler - yes, I am originally from Ontario, although I have never lived in Northern Ontario, so I am sure the winter will be a bit of a shock after Arizona for 2.5 years. I am moving back because I got a good job there and I am tired of the ridculously hot summers, pollution, big city life and work visa issues!

It is a shame to have to sell the rock - it was pretty high quality stuff and it would probably be cheaper just to get the permit, but I don't think I really want the hassle of getting it. Transporting 70+lbs of LR in a car for 5 days was also starting to look like more hassle than it was worth given the list of things I was supposed to fit in my car was rapidly exceed the size of my vehicle which will already have two people and three dogs (especially since I hadn't even thought about the smell, which as thatguy suggests would probably be not very nice!

)

kjbudsberg · #10 10/29/2006, 10:34 PM

Might there be less of a chance of problems if you declare it as "base rock for marine aquaria?" If you feel so inclined, you could even take along documentation of the GARF DIY live rock sites. And, for all we know, you did DIY, right?

Chrismo · #11 10/29/2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerf
but you're not terribly far from Toronto, which is. You'd probably want to make a day trip to TO to get your marine fix. [/B]

Although Sault Ste Marie is in the same province(=state) as Toronto, it's not really that close. It's 8-9 hours of highway driving to get to toronto. Toronto Reef stores are very cheap though, especially for corals. You could get them to ship, if there arent any reef stores in Sault ste marie. There is a reef store in Sudbury I think. Thats only 200 miles away.

Most stories I hear of, they do not bother people bringing Live Rock over the border, but occasionally they do. I wouldnt risk bringing it accross the border, it's big trouble if they decide to prosecute you. Canadian border guards are a bit kinder and gentler than US side, but they sometimes will fine the heck outa you.

Sault Ste Marie is very nice & friendly. My uncle lives there and loves it. Good fishing.
It's a bit colder than Arizona thoug

Hope you like it there.
Here's a list of fishstores in Ontario, although focusing on toronto it may be usefull to you.
http://chrismorris.ca/lfs/

Chris

taxman95 · #12 10/29/2006, 11:18 PM

Rather than driving to Toronto you might want to mail order. J&L will ship by plane which worked great for me picking it up in Hamilton.

You might want to also start reading AquariumPros.ca which is a Canadian discussion form. Not nearly as many posts as RC but you get classifieds and sponsors in Canada which is useful and not that easy to find here.

leheath · #13 10/30/2006, 12:13 AM

Chrismo - thanks for the LFS links, I am sure they will come in handy when I start setting my tank up in the Soo. The good news is I will have to make several trips to Toronto for work (especially in the first few months), so I may be able to pick up some LR (and other goodies) on one of those trips (as long as I can take the rock as checked luggage).

I did actually check out AquariumPros.ca, which is where I got the information about bringing LR across the border. I also checked out J&L and they seem pretty reasonably priced for LR and shipping would hopefully not be too bad - I could always pick it up in Sudbury if needed.

Looking forward to joining the Canadian reefing community!

j0tca · #14 10/30/2006, 12:59 PM

I called about importing livestock from the states to canada before I moved the rock (and a few fishes) and was told, by canadian customs that it was no problem and I did not need a permit unless it was for re-sale. Double check on this cites permit because I don't think you need it. The phone number is on the Canada Customs website and they will answer your questions over the phone.

Will

j0tca · #15 10/30/2006, 01:25 PM

I called about importing livestock from the states to canada before I moved the rock (and a few fishes) and was told, by canadian customs that it was no problem and I did not need a permit unless it was for re-sale. Double check on this cites permit because I don't think you need it. The phone number is on the Canada Customs website and they will answer your questions over the phone.

Will

j0tca · #16 10/30/2006, 01:25 PM

I only clicked the "submit" button once there. Weird how it sometimes double posts...

leheath · #17 10/30/2006, 03:27 PM

Hmmmm....maybe I should double check...perhaps I didn't realize the post I read was about re-selling rock? However, I am now a bit concerned about the smell. If the rock is in water for 5 days, without powerhead agitation, do you think it will start to smell? I may also have space issues - 70lbs of rock in water takes up a heck of a lot of room and weighs alot too!

Chrismo · #18 10/30/2006, 03:39 PM

CITIES doesnt care if you are selling the animals or not. The reason many people get into canada with Corals / liverock, is because often the customs officers dont know the rules well. It really isnt allowed even for personal use.

It's been discussed to death on many of the canadian boards.
Good luck whichever way you go.
Chris

j0tca · #19 10/30/2006, 05:07 PM

Chrismo,

I respectfully disagree with you. I spoke to a customs official and their view was that importing animals for aquariums was definatley allowed, with some restrictions and exceptions. As someone who lives in montreal and spends a lot of time in New York, I made a point of finding out what I was allowed.

Leheath,

I'm not sure if the rock will start to smell after 5 days, there will definatley be die-off but perhaps not too much. In a car, the water is being moved around while the car bounces around on the road. If you've got a power converter, you might plug in a small powerhead at night to your car's battery (might last till morning, or even if you use a timer and it lasts 4 hours, which doesn't leave them stagnant for too long) then the rocks are in constant circulation.

Will

Chrismo · #20 10/30/2006, 05:26 PM

No offence taken. As I said, there are a lot of different opinions on the rules, even by customs officers. Best to be prepared for that Leheath.
http://www.cites.ec.gc.ca/eng/sct3/index_e.cfm#autop

leheath · #21 10/30/2006, 09:20 PM

To be honest, after careful consideration I think the easiest and safest decision would be to sell the rock. I don't want to deal with either permits or risk there being a problem at the border as I will be travelling with a bunch of stuff and three dogs and don't want any unnecessary delays.

Thank you everyone for the information and perhaps I will meet some of the Ontario reefers in the not too distant future!

Lorraine