Increasing captive bred livestock

[Dewey115]

I have been very strongly considering getting started in trying to breed many types of not as common animals. My goals are not to raise anything considered impossible, but hopefully some of the less common fish/verts. I would really like to help increase the amount of captive bred livestock either directly or indirectly. I care more about advancing the hobby (and minimizing live caught fish) and less about money. Not that I would complain if I made money off of it, but its not much of a motivating factor... I consider this thread my own brainstorming but I would very much appreciate thoughts and ideas or comments, this is meant for us to learn and hopefully all benefit from.

Firstly I guess would be to identify the problems we have and what we need to overcome. Generally I guess the two biggest ones are the ability to raise the young in a clean tank for a long time without pollution problems. The other I guess is just a basic ignorance about what the young need to thrive. Any other issues anyone can think of? I know there are alot more than just these two, but from what I have read these seem to be the two biggest.

I welcome any posts that contribute in some way to what will hopefully become a good discussion.

Rick

[CaptiveMarine]

Rick,

I can't really offer much help on fish since I keep very few if any fish in my tanks, but I am starting something like what you are doing only with corals and the one thing I can suggest is to share what you learn. Captive raised stock is always better for our tanks and our hobby. I look forward to hearing more about what you are doing and wish you the bet of luck.

Jim

[clownfish75]

Im not quite sure what your asking but as far as water quality goes, i figure these days on serious over kill, i just keep throwing skimmers at my system and each one just produces more crud even with the old ones working as they did before, UV steralisers of larger sizes, and either some serious water changes or a super denitrafier.

As for things to make it work better that arent well published or researched

Food
Light
Food
Grow out diet
Food
water quality vs survival
And did i mention food

And time heaps of it, endless amounts of it.
I have species breeding and no time to get ot them it just spirals out of control sometimes

Christian

[FMarini]

Rick-
honestly the main probem w/ all of fish raising is appropiate first foods. Most of the species, even rare ones will bred if given the appropiate conditions. Its what to do w/ the spawn and getting the fry to eat. If you look at the literture, its resplendid w/ observations of breeding this and that and in all most every case the fry die at days 3-10 when the onset of required nutrition occurs. Case in point centropyge angels. These guys will breed in both public & home aquaria, that been reported for years, but it wasn't until someone figured out that the required first food was a specific copepod larvae did anyone have any success w/ getting the fry past day 3. Thats the key, and it will be the key for many many species, (my dwarf fuzzies woul breed almost every month, i got tons of eggs and minute fry, but i coul never get any of them to feed, same w/ my zebra eels- multiple breding, egg mass galore, no fry alive past day 8 in their case) find the appropiate nutirional first food to get the fry to survive

[David M]

Rick, my goals are similar to yours but I'm smart enough to know I have to walk before I can run Before taking on the more challenging species I suggest you start with some seahorses, bangaii's or clownfish. Freshwater experience really doesn't help much, you need to get your hands wet raising some easier species and get your systems and protocols down to a system that is practically automatic for you, so you don't even have to think about it. I am hoping to move on to new species but for now I'm sticking with what others have done before. I am not even close to thinking about anything that requires food smaller than rotifers. JMO -D

[2divers]

I have tried raising clownfish and the trouble I had was a consistant supply of quality food. This seems to be one of the major problems. I have a wild caught female and male gulf pipe fish which had 3 batches of eggs prior to the males death - cause unknown. We feed them newly hatched bbs. It seems to me that people who try their hand at raising any fry have to be very dedicated. It takes alot of time to keep cultures going not to mention the time it takes on the fry themselves. Good Luck!

[2divers]

David M

Do you have experience with dwarf seahorses? I have three now and the male is definately carring eggs. He is due to hatch out on Thursday or Friday. Any thoughts?

[David M]

It seems to me that people who try their hand at raising any fry have to be very dedicated.

That is the understatement of the day.

Do you have experience with dwarf seahorses?

Not directly, but I have been a mod at Seahorse.org for a long time. The nice thing about dwarfs is that you do not necessarily need a seperate nursery and the fry eat the same bbs as the adults.

[Atticus]

The first step to get into breeding is reading. This site and the internet in general are loaded with excellent information. Also buy IWlkerson's Clownfishes ( wish I got a nickle everytime I say that... ) and Frank Hoff's book on breeding as they will open the door for you a bit. The topics you brought up are important, but far to general and have been covered to death in this forum. If you go to the anemone and clownfish forum there is a new post where many breeders are collaberating their experiances with all types of clownfish. I believe you have a good goal, but you need to slow it down a bit and maybe visit a few of the breeders that post regularly in this forum that are from your neck of the woods.

[David M]

And don't forget Martin Moe's Breeding the Orchid Dottyback , required reading IMHO. (now for my nickel )

[Dewey115]

Just as a minor clarification. Food to me fits under the catagory of ignorance about their needs. Unless you know exactly what food to feed and are just unable to aquire it. I have some experience with clownfish and had little troubles with it once we got the feel for it. I dont have alot of room for breeding much of anything, so I was thinking more along the lines of mainly helping problem solve and testing different things. I have by no means enough resources (space or money) to breed and raise more than one type of fish. I mainly want to make sure somebody out there has success raising many types of fish... I dont care if its me or you or some unknown person that doesnt even read these forums. If I can in any way help to increase the amount of captive bred fish I will be very pleased. My thoughts for this thread is just a nice active flow of thoughts and ideas. If we figure out things or work out problems then great, but if all we do is realize a few of our mistakes then that is alot better than nothing. I can find countless resources for corals, fish breeding however (beit published books or amateur web sites) is much more rare. I just want to try to start changing that. Anyone with a good guide and some money can raise many types of corals well, I dont like that it is so rare to even know someone that has bred marine fish, let alone know how.

Rick

[Atticus]

I don't believe it is as rare as you think to know a breeder. Heck in Iowa I personally know of 5 and we are breeding clowns, bangaii, and seahorses. This is amazing to me as there really aren't that many reef keepers in Iowa in general. As far as breeding discussion that is what we do here in this forum. If you open up your thread search for the last year you will see tons of species discussed in depth. I think you have a good idea, but you are actually posting inside of what you are looking for.

[David M]

Breeding is catching on for advanced aquarists. There are 4-5 breeders in my area and another half dozen wannabe's that are just setting up. I think it just took some time and the efforts of a few pioneers ( Martin Moe comes to mind) to make more of us realize that success is attainable. I probably never would have started to try clownfish if I didn't know Morgman, and now I have neon gobies only because I got them from Todd Gardner. It is the success of those two, Rsman, J Hardman and the others who post here that gives me the drive. On the flipside, I have been breeding seahorses for so long that many beginners have seen my systems and become inspired, so they get their start. IMHO it's just beginning to snowball, I think in the years to come we will see breeding become a much bigger part of the hobby. Developements like IA and improved availabilty of food and culture items helps a lot, as demand grows these thing will be even more readily available. More books will get published as the demand for them grows. More companies will enter the aquaculture market. It's on a roll...