Tetracycline not for use in saltwater???

[danorth]

Hi, just got some T.C. Tetracycline by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. Says use in freshwater. 500mg tetracycline hydrochloride per packet.

Why can't I use this in saltwater? Mardel makes one that can be used in both at 250mg....

[billsreef]

Tetracycline can be used in SW, but it is not as effective due to interference with the calcium in SW. Both companies are selling the same antibiotic, just one is hedging their bets by not marketing to the SW crowd. If you need to treat a bacterial infection in SW, there are better choices such as Nitrofuran, kanacyn and a few others.

[danorth]

Thanks bill! I have already put in a 20 gallon dose today of TC, but will go looking for the others you have listed as well as Marcyn Two tomorrow.

[billsreef]

Just pulled out my copy of Noga to look up suggested levels of tetracylcine. He calls for a minimum of 38 up to 380mg per gallon, and says to use higher doses in hard water, which are SW certainly is

[danorth]

Holy smokes. I put 1000mg in 20 gallons = 50mg/1 gallon.

Here is the deal, I was at a lfs and they had a big undulate from the red sea and it was on its side with the fins down to the bones. I said that it was a shame and asked if they were going to treat it, they said no, they were going to wait for it to die so they could send it back to the wholesaler for credit and I called BS on that since they don't have days to report DOA and the guy asked if I wanted it. I said sure for free, that I'd give it a shot to heal it up. I have 20 gallon long that I've been keeping up as a qt so it is fully cycled (just checked again) and put copper in there and some melafix as that was all I had around. Then I went and got some TC. The fish looks like hell, but still moves around a bit, but likes to lay on its side as most scared undulates do as far as I've seen, healthy or not.

So, that is where I'm at. Should I up the dosage?

[LisaD]

Dan,

A good broad spectrum combination is neomycin and triple sulfa. I get mine from National Fish Pharmaceuticals in Arizona (http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/). They ship quick, I'd let them know you need it now. You also may be able to purchase Seachem sulfathiozole and neomycin locally.

NPP have a decent disease chart, perhaps some other med will be better. However, neomycin and sulfa are often a good combination. If I were you, I'd skip the tetracycline. Other meds that might be worth trying are Kanamycin. Maracyn might be ok. FW maracyn I think just requires a double dose in salt water.

Be prepared to do daily, large water changes. When I do mine, I usually replace the dose I took out. I usually do 50% daily, or two 35% per day. Whatever it takes to keep ammonia down.

I would get specific gravity down to 1.020 (not hypo, just lower) and keep water coolish (mid 70's, nowhere near 80). See if you can get him to eat. You can also deliver meds via food.

Good luck, sounds like a worthwhile project.

[danorth]

It was too far gone. Here are the pics I took of it yesterday, 18 hours after I got it. Perhaps if I had the drugs I needed at time 0 I could have had better results. I did a water change on it last night too and lowered the spg to 1.018 and kept it at 76*. I had fed it 3 small pieces of shrimp, but later found them in the water. That was the night I got it (Saturday) then it wouldn't eat Sunday and I found the meat that I thought it ate. Here are the pics of the 7.5" fish.

I only wish this site had a How-To section for situations like this, I would keep some drugs on standby and know exactly the best way to approach it instead of hoping to search out an answer. Thanks to you Lisa and Bill for the help, I will keep some of those drugs you mentioned Lisa on hand for the next chance to heal a fish.

[wtac]

I can't tell by the pic of it lying down, but if the eyes shift/tilt towards a swimming/floating position, you have a good chance as there is still neurological, visual response. If there is no eye movement to anything moving or "wanting" to be in a proper swimming/floating position, the chances are poor as there are some issues than what we can't easily account for.

For it's comfort, keep the QT dimly lit and cover the sides w/a dark opaque material.

JME w/rough arrivals to add to everyone elses' input . RS undulateds are beauties w/an attitude to match! We are all routing for it's recovery!

HTH

[billsreef]

That poor fish has multiple problems. Likely the primary problem is a parasite infection, flukes from the look of the fin and skin damage.

[danorth]

Just to clairify, it didn't make it through Sunday night. It died.

So, flukes will cause the fins to rot like that and the skin to flake off? I guess I don't know about flukes or their treatment. I think I will look into that Noga author and look for that treatment book.

Wtac, it wouldn't swim other than a few inches just to relocate. It would swim straight and hit a wall and lay over. Thanks for your input too.

[billsreef]

Flukes (trematodes) eat the skin and in advanced cases will make a fish look like that trigger. They are translucent and very hard to see, making diagnosis hard. Often shinning a flashlight at the fish and looking along the length of the fish, they will look like small clear bubbles or loose flaps of skin. Treatment is a simple fresh water dip for 1 to 5 minutes, they turn opaque and fall off. Makes the dip container look like a snow globe. They are prevalent in fish from some wholesalers.

Noga's book on fish disease is excellent, it's not cheap though as it is a proper veterinary text book on fish health.