Solaris/ PFO Lighting

jason.beldon · #1 09/21/2007, 12:47 PM

Just wanted to know whether anyone had any info on the newer LED lighting system that is out. I'm planning on setting-up a 125 gallon Long. Currently I plan on using three 250w hqi with pc and lunar lights, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience or knowledge on this relatively new lighting concept. The solaris system, in theory, would come out on top in the long-run... that is, if it can prove its claims. It says that it uses 40% less energy, no chiller would be required, and the kelvin can be digitally adjusted from about 10k to 20k. It is quite a bit more expensive in the initial setup... but it could potentialy save me a ton of money in the future. Oh, and the bulbs are supposed to last for up to 50,000 hrs. I'm mainly concerned with whether or not it would actually be able to support a tank of mixed LPS and SPS corals, and whether or not the spectrum changes over time. Sounds like a great system... almost too great, but if the corals don't like it, then its obviously not worth it. Any info or ideas would be much appreciated.

crumbletop · #2 09/21/2007, 12:54 PM

To Reef Central

A couple of our local club members run these on mixed SPS/LPS tanks and really like them. They run cool and seem to put out decent light. They haven't been out long enough to know about actual longevity, and they don't put out as much PAR as many Halides, but the corals seem happy and the tanks look nice.

jason.beldon · #3 09/21/2007, 01:38 PM

The lack of unbiased(customer) reviews on these systems is what makes me wary. I really like the idea of a more pocket-friendly lighting system, but as you mentioned, they just haven't been out long enough to really know how a reef system will respond over time. Thanks for the 'speedy' response though.

foltzcd · #4 09/22/2007, 04:52 PM

I have had mine for short time. The SPS colors look fine and the growth still looks good. The lack of scatter is good and bad. The coraline on the front and sides is very limited but there are some dead spots on the edges.

SWSaltwater · #5 09/22/2007, 05:28 PM

The new I4 has some incredible par and lumen output. 80 Lumens per watt on the white LED's and the par meter showed 1200+ about 4 inches under the light at Super Zoo.

foltzcd · #6 09/22/2007, 06:04 PM

Yes it does. I just wish it had a broader scatter of light. There should be a way to add a reflector to this light.

seastar12 · #7 09/22/2007, 06:44 PM

Many people use and like them, but of course no one has had them for a while to see what would happen in the long run, since they just came out.

stony_corals · #8 09/22/2007, 08:26 PM

It'll take you a long time to get the payback at a $3k price tag of the solaris. Do yourself a favor and do either T5s,an Ice Cap retro, or a good halide using lumenarcs.....

roblack · #9 09/24/2007, 03:39 PM

I picked up the Solaris H4 (400 watt =) 36 inch for my Oceanic 76 gallon half circle, and have to say I am blown away! Costly, I paid $2300. But way better than MH, even for the SPS, acros and all. You can make it all blue, white, or mixed. With the blues all the way up and white lights off, the flourescent corals glow like I have never seen. Doesnt burn corals like mh's do. I have had the light about a month now, already see increased growth with almost everything. LOVE IT!!! Get one if you can afford it.

Dr Begalke · #10 09/24/2007, 03:47 PM

check out:
http://www.aquaillumination.com/

roblack · #11 09/24/2007, 03:48 PM

I am running a mix of SPS and LPS, with quite a few acans, montis, echinos, mycedium, acans, micros, cyphastreas, and stuff like that. I was having problems with MH's burining my LPS, esp the chalices, and now am seeing them come back, and the acros and montis are spreading with greater polyp extension than I have ever seen with the MHs.

Dr Begalke · #12 09/24/2007, 09:51 PM

I am saving up for that aquaillumination system... I wanted a Solaris, but it seems like the were just released and the they are one there third set of LED technology with the first two already discontinued!!

The AI system has modular leds, so even if i decide 6 months from now that i want the 5th generation of LEDs, I just by those and plug them in... Plus, it can be programmed directly from a computer...

SWSaltwater · #13 09/24/2007, 10:56 PM

The new Solaris I4 is much more powerful the the aquaillumination specs, plus has he shipped a light yet? Maybe redoing the design now that the higher output solaris was dropped.

Dr Begalke · #14 09/24/2007, 11:29 PM

I was wondering about how powerful the I4 was compared to the AI system... it would be nice to compare them side-by-side...

Anyways, that's exactly my point... the original Solaris and the H4's are discontinued.. I4's will be history in 6-12 months, you'll have to spend another few thousand for the J4's, or K4's.... but with the $363 saved on the AI unit (36"), that should go along way to buying the latest and greatest LEDs to plug into it down the round.

As for not shipping yet, I don't think a single I4 has shipped either...

Beyond all that, I really like how the AI unit can plugged into a computer for programming, very cool... The little buttons and screen in the middle of the Solaris just distracts me from looking at the tank!

SWSaltwater · #15 09/24/2007, 11:32 PM

I4's ship next month, had a few H-4's on order and the I-4 are running instead. LED's from any company will upgrade every 6-12 months, it will be like computers for a few years. Any brighter on the LED's and they will have to reduce the amount per hood.

Dr Begalke · #16 09/24/2007, 11:40 PM

Yes, thats true about the LEDs, that's why they made the AI modular:

http://www.aquaillum.com/upgrade.html

Dr Begalke · #17 09/24/2007, 11:43 PM

Either way, both are really cool systems!

I do have some concerns with Key Devices being new to the aquarium industry, but they have a good reputation in home automation...

Dr Begalke · #18 09/24/2007, 11:50 PM

the other thing regarding the cost of these systems, is that you really should compare it to a MH that can do all of the sunset/sunrise/moon/etc. features, something like the sfiligoi acls...

in which case the LED's cost is pretty comparable.

SWSaltwater · #19 09/25/2007, 01:30 AM

Yeah Sfiligoi is nice but way over priced IMO. I actually don't need the controller features much for my needs.

The Galileo from PFO is nice, LED's with no controller for a fraction of the price. I only wish it had more LED's

Solaris also can be upgraded, they will offer upgrades for older systems as I understand it. They are using such new LED's that the supply might take a bit to build up for the upgrades to become available. I am waiting on my upgrade

davelina24 · #20 09/25/2007, 01:39 AM

I was running 3 175 MH plus 4 PC's (130 watt) and 3 led moonlights, four timers, 8 exhaust fans...

I bought an H4 after Reef a Palooza and love it....so simple...

My electric bill went down $140 in a month. In So Cal it's very hot and electricity is a concern. I don't run a chiller but the a/c in my house needed to be set at 72 to keep the tank around 80. Now with the lack of heat from the MH's I run the a/c at 80. Huge difference...oh yeah and I don't have to replace 3 MH and 4 PC every 6 months.

Love it and it will pay for itself. The I4 is just the latest and greatest, doesn't mean the H4 is bad.

FYI...My tank is heavily stocked SPS and some LPS....my corals love it and are thriving like never before.

SWSaltwater · #21 09/25/2007, 02:24 AM

H4 is plenty light. I think any more power then the I4 is overkill and they should reduce the amount of LED's to reduce costs. I4 is very powerfull.

nyvp · #22 09/25/2007, 07:01 AM

all I know it will cost $12k to light my tank with 4 five foot systems.. it would take me 10 years to pay off the system.

BeanAnimal · #23 09/25/2007, 07:45 AM

[/b][/quote]Yeah Sfiligoi is nice but way over priced IMO. I actually don't need the controller features much for my needs.[/b][/quote]

Okay so if the "features" are not the selling point, then what it? How do you compare a $4,000 LED setup to a $1,500 MH setup? We are back to efficiency and cost. The MH (at this point) is still the clear winner.

Quote:

H4 is plenty light. I think any more power then the I4 is overkill and they should reduce the amount of LED's to reduce costs. I4 is very powerfull.

And you could easily run low wattage halides and still save money too

BeanAnimal · #24 09/25/2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by davelina24
I was running 3 175 MH plus 4 PC's (130 watt) and 3 led moonlights, four timers, 8 exhaust fans...

My electric bill went down $140 in a month. In So Cal it's very hot and electricity is a concern. I don't run a chiller but the a/c in my house needed to be set at 72 to keep the tank around 80. Now with the lack of heat from the MH's I run the a/c at 80. Huge difference...oh yeah and I don't have to replace 3 MH and 4 PC every 6 months.

Where to start?

3 @ 175W (lets say 200 With ballasts) = 600W
4 @ 130W (lets say 140 With ballasts = 520W
8 @ 10W (and that is a high estimate) = 80W
The timers are not worth counting, nor are the moonlights.

Lets assume a 10 hour light cycle:
That is 1200W for 10 hours a day: OR 12 kWh

Now you replaced that with an H4 (you did not say how big but lets say 500W).

So 500W for 10 hours is 5 kWh a day.

12 - 5 = 7 kWh a day difference in power consumption.
We will come back to that.

Lets first look at the heat load on the ROOM (you say you don't use a chiller.) You replaced 1200W worth of consumption with 500W. The net heat load on the room is 700W less over 24 hours.

Now lets assume that your AC is horrible and takes uses a WATT for every WATT of heat it removes.

Halides:
1200W for the equipment
1200W for the AC to remove the heat
------------------------------------------
2400W total

LED:
500W for the equipment
500W for the AC
-------------------------------------------
1000W total

So 24kWh vs 10 kWh. The difference is 14 kWh a day.

Here are YOUR electric rates:
SUMMER (May 1 - October 31) Rates
On-peak: Noon to 8 p.m. 22.35¢ kWh
Off-peak: 8 p.m. to noon 5.9¢ kWh

WINTER (November 1- April 30) Rates
On-peak: 4 p.m. to 10 p.m. 19.32¢ kWh
Off-peak: 10 p.m. to 4 p.m. 4.7¢ kWh

So lets take worst case 22.35¢

30 Days in a month @ 14 kWh difference a day = 420 kWh
420kWh @ 22.35¢ = $93.87

THAT IS A FAR CRY FROM $140
************************************************

Now lets get back to reality. Your AC unit moves several watts of HEAT for every WATT it consumes. You can look up the energy rating of you unit to determine exactly how much.

Lets just be VERY conservative and say it is 2:1 We will also say that you turned up the thermostat for the LEDs and cut the AC usage by another 50%

Halides:
1200W for the equipment
0600W for the AC to remove the heat
------------------------------------------
1800W total

LED:
500W for the equipment
125W for the AC
-------------------------------------------
625W total

So 18 kWh vs 6.25 kWh. The difference is 11.75 kWh a day.

30 Days in a month @ 11.75 kWh difference a day = 352.5 kWh
252.5kWh @ 22.35¢ = $78.79

That is nearly HALF of the savings that you are claiming. That is using worst case numbers.

I am not trying to beat you up. But claims like you made are simply not supported by the facts. Electrical conspumption is not magical. You unplugged predictable devices and replaced them with predictable devices. We know the power consumption, therefore we know the heat load on the room.

Furthermore, you replaced 1200W worth of lighting with 500W worth of lighting that is LESS EFFICIENT. That means you are putting LESS light into the tank.

You could have reduced the number of halides and/or PCs and/or wattages and achieved the same result.

Less power consumption with less efficient technology is less overall light.

Again, I am not trying to beat you up. I just want to be sure that this is all kept in perspective.

SWSaltwater · #25 09/25/2007, 09:00 AM

I think they are going by their actual bill post switch Bean............Maybe they are willing to post the KWH's etc...Calling em a liar is not goot form IMO.

To clarify I personally can't use the controllers on mine cause I have it in a store. If it was at home I would use em. So for a MH system, on/off is all I need.