OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef

[jnarowe]

Well the pipe is about 14" and my tank water is about 33". But that's the key, you can cut a variety of pipes and figure out what works best. And of course, be very careful about the sand!

[jnarowe]

So I was feeding the tank tonight and had my step ladder out. When I turned to come back down, I discovered our new cat had climbed up the ladder and gotten on top of the grow-out tank T5 array. It's hanging from two thin wires, never mind the fact that is is freakin' hot as heck. The cat was just exploring, so I put it down on the floor, and it ran right back up the ladder. Damn Siamese.

And I had just been struggling with that stupid sebae clown again. I never seem to win. As soon as I try to feed the PLTA, that clown grabs the food and makes off with it. I swear that fish is retarded. It steals food from its own host for God's sake!

And I have been following Marc's 280 thread and he recently put in a mirror to give him a better view of his Vortechs. When I went to feed the Duncans, I discovered that the close by Vortech was stalled. It would not re-start either. I think it was just that the wet side needed to be cleaned, because when I popped on a spare, it started to run correctly. But the real issue is that I cannot see these things where they are installed. It's a pain to have to keep watch on them like that, but I suppose in the future they will come out with some kind of central station that will give an audible if something is wrong.

[Hopeful Reefer]

Jonathan, any chance you can give us a preview of the food mix and "lecture" you are gonna give your local club soon? I have just recently started using my own food mix and let me tell ya, all the fish, shrimp, anemone, etc. all devour the stuff...they love it!!! Compared to the mysis I used to feed, they went crazy the very first time I put it in the tank...I'd be interested to see how you do your mix and what goes in to it...

[steve the plumb]

Please do tell us about the mix.I think I have to make some.

[jnarowe]

so weird. I posted the entire thing in someone's thread and I can't remember where. I'll try to do this as soon as I get a chance. Maybe Marc remembers where I posted that?

[melev]

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...8#post11397998

[jnarowe]

Thanks Marc!

As I read over that, I see it is not exactly correct either. I actually soak the foods in RO/DI, then rinse and strain. I also feel that the cyclops may be more of a risk that it is worth, just because of the particle size. It's extremely difficult to rinse and strain it, and I feel the pollution it causes may be fairly high because of that.

The Garlic is optional of course, and that is a topic all its own. Sherman is always ragging on me for using garlic, just as I rag on everyone else for putting lettuce, broccoli etc. in their tanks. And he's probably right, but it as been my experience that it has helped my fish stay strong in the face of disease. It "may" help boost the immune system but whether that will ever be proved is doubtful. One thing is clear to anyone who has farted in the shower, scents travel fast in water, and it seems to really attract the fish to the food.

One of the most important parts of feeding IMO, is straining the food once you have thawed it. I had for some oddball reason forgotten to do this for consecutive months, and I saw a drastic change in my nuisance algae and water quality. I can only assume it would be MUCH worse in a smaller system.

So Steve, what results did you get from testing your food?

Sherman and I tested Frozen Formula 2 by soaking some in RO/DI for about a half hour, letting it settle, and testing the water. We found a result of .75 - 1.0 ppm of PO4. Then we soaked the bulk of it in RO/DI, rinsed it with RO/DI, and then settled some in RO/DI for a second test. That one tested out to be .01 - .05 ppm of PO4. And I consider Formula 2 to be one of the better products available.

[jnarowe]

Another thing to note is that I also remove clams and mussels from the mixed seafood I get at the Asian store. The reason for this is that I don't want my fish getting a taste for clams, and both clams and mussels have a high waste to protein content. They are practically half crap.

On the flip side, shrimp and scallops are extremely high in protein and virtually zero waste product. They have a very high protein to weight ratio, so I tend to go heavy on those two. Scallops are expensive, but shrimp can be found rather cheaply at Asian stores.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by jnarowe
Sherman and I tested Frozen Formula 2 by soaking some in RO/DI for about a half hour, letting it settle, and testing the water. We found a result of .75 - 1.0 ppm of PO4. Then we soaked the bulk of it in RO/DI, rinsed it with RO/DI, and then settled some in RO/DI for a second test. That one tested out to be .01 - .05 ppm of PO4. And I consider Formula 2 to be one of the better products available.

on the second test, did you strain it first?

[Flint&Eric]

jnarowe- i guess great minds think alike i've been doing the same thing ("reef blower") with my tunze 6025's and been planning doing the same with mj1200 mod on our new tank...i've been calling it a stream loop.

[jnarowe]

And I do not turn off any pumps. I know most reef keepers do, but I like for the food to remain in the water column rather than sink, and I like all the fish to get an equal chance at the food. By turning off the pumps, the food stays in one location, and then the biggest bullies get the bulk of it.

And I also usually have animals in my overflow to get anything that makes it all the way there. This includes a nice gaggle of aiptasia and currently 2 neon blue gobies.

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by Elliott
on the second test, did you strain it first?

hmmmm...We soaked the bulk of it in RO/DI, then strained it, and then let some settle in RO/DI for testing. So yes, we did strain it before the test part, as that is how I do it when I make the food.

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
jnarowe- i guess great minds think alike i've been doing the same thing ("reef blower") with my tunze 6025's and been planning doing the same with mj1200 mod on our new tank...i've been calling it a stream loop.

Be careful with the MJ 1200 mod version. It is extremely powerful!

[gkarshens]

I am going to make a new batch of fish food tomorrow evening myself. I have a huge Asian Super Market around the corner from my house which makes it nice. I have never rinsed my food before but after seeing your test results I will now.

[jnarowe]

Try doing some testing too Gabriel. This is one of the key points of my food making presentation. I am trying to get across to the PSAS members that they should be testing everything that goes in their tanks.

So many of us take for granted that if the label states it is made for aquaria, that it is a properly vetted product. I will never forget my experience with a Jungle product designed to stabilize FW. I started using it and my tank exploded with algae. I got very suspicious and called the company because there were no ingredients on the package. And the nice lady i talked to said she could not disclose the ingredients, but that perhaps I should try tesing it. I did so and found it was off-the-chart for PO4.

When I see a product on the shelf that does not list its ingredients, I won't even give it a second look. I am sick of buying sugar water and nutrient slurries!

And don't just "rinse" the food. Soak it in RO/DI, and then rinse and strain. Soaking is what really cleans it up.

[Elliott]

if you feed dry food that is quickly eaten does it really matter if it contains phosphates?

[jnarowe]

Good question Elliott. I suppose that the phosphates would just come out the other end opr be absorbed and make your fish retarded, but the frozen food thing is two-fold. Not just to limit nutirents, but to also feed the fish much higher quality food. Just hold $5 worth of dry food in one hand, and $5 of a frozen mix. Which one do you think is better for your fish? Is the protein and other ingredients on the dry food label listed as a percent?

So you have Formula Two Flake listed as: Crude Protine (min) 50.0%, Crude Fat (min) 11.5%, Crude Fiber (max) 1.0%, Ash (max) 6.0%, Moisture (max) 8.8%

You buy a 5.5 oz. jar for $9 and feed your fish some flakes every day. At 50% protein (a very large percentage BTW), how much protein are your fish actually getting? You can make a batch of frozen food for the same price that will last you for months, and your fish will be eating a lot more and better quality food IMO.

Flakes are really not enough to support and keep healthy fish IMO, and pellets are just a small step up from that.

Check out this crazy aquascape: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...4#post11398914

[Elliott]

what you are saying makes a lot of sense, although supplementing dry food has other benefits, like use in an auto feeder when away and keeping coral nipping fish like Angels well fed and off the corals

[jnarowe]

I hear you on the auto feeder. I have been contemplating building an auto feeder for frozen food, but I just haven't had the time to really get into it. Live food is another option. Like keeping live bearing fish or shrimp in a refugium, having a brine shrimp hatcher going, etc.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by jnarowe
I hear you on the auto feeder. I have been contemplating building an auto feeder for frozen food, but I just haven't had the time to really get into it. Live food is another option. Like keeping live bearing fish or shrimp in a refugium, having a brine shrimp hatcher going, etc.

please build it so I can copy you!

[jnarowe]

gonna be a while. I think using some kind of modified ice cube dispenser will be the ticket. My thought process so far has run the gamut of trying to feed thawed foods, multi-stage live food feeders etc.

Where my brain is going now is towards using home ice-maker technology to dispense cubes of frozen food throughout the day. The hard part would be the rinse process, but I can imagine some sort of RO/DI wash-down system. It's complicated mechanically but I think once I get into building it, I will be able to simplify it enough that others can build them.

[Hopeful Reefer]

Originally posted by jnarowe
Check out this crazy aquascape: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...4#post11398914

Glad to see ya like the 'scaping that Dave did in his new tank...he is one of the locals in our club...he has actually started a new business making wall scapes...they are totally cool...I've seen some in person and also some in one of the LFS...he has a tube in each of the tiki heads with a blue waterproof LED that really makes it look awesome...

[jnarowe]

Yeah, I think it's pretty cool. I had originally experimented with foam and rock in my FW Planted tank with the idea of using it in my reef. But when I decided to use the Vortechs, that idea had to be dropped. It would be stupid to have Vortechs and not be able to move them around the glass.

Anyway, since I will be going away from those sometime in '08, I may get back into wall scaping myself. I have been really happy with the result in my FW Planted tank, and it has been solid for about 2.5 years now.

The LEDs are over the top, but I have to believe that will be crazy cool during night viewing. The one trouble with that kind of install is keeping the maintanance simple. I pulled a piece of coraline off one of the walls of my tank last night that you could use for a lunch plate.

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
jnarowe- i guess great minds think alike i've been doing the same thing ("reef blower") with my tunze 6025's and been planning doing the same with mj1200 mod on our new tank...i've been calling it a stream loop.

BTW, great Sheila Patek video linked on your blog.

[Hopeful Reefer]

I am not quite sure what Dave uses to make the rock, but I don't believe he uses foam at all...I think he uses actual rock but I'm not completely sure...I really like the look that his rock walls create, because it gives the whole aquarium more depth...you get the right amount of rock surface for bacterial colonization, while at the same time you maximize tank area for corals, fish swimming room, etc...even has caves and such in it for the fish to swim in and out of...he plans on this tank being BB except for inside the tiki heads where he will have several inches of sand for his wrasses to burrow in...if you are ever on the Right (East ) coast near Richmond, Virginia, look me up and I'll see if we can't get you over there to see his system...we have a huge local network here, and we all meet at least once a month to trade frags and have a good time...so I'm sure one more for a meet would be no big deal...