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  #151  
Old 08/15/2007, 10:53 PM
SERVO SERVO is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by smithcreek
Are you talking about domesticated chickens or wild chickens? One interesting fact is that wild chickens, much like some of their bi-valve relatives, still have the ability to produce pearls. Domesticated chickens don't have that ability anymore. So they eat the sand or pebble, to aid in digestion, but occasionally it gets lodged somewhere it's not supposed to, and gets turned into a pearl.

There are native tribes that still eat the wild chickens and when they shuck them they often find pearls. That's actually where the saying "chicken of the sea" came from.
You make me laugh smithcreek
  #152  
Old 08/16/2007, 02:00 AM
Kalkbreath Kalkbreath is offline
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Quote:
by jfatherree
Quote:

Post references, please.
Quote:
between them and reality.
Your question is do I have an altered view of reality?
Well every one knows im a bit off my rocker.
but that doesnt always translate into my being wrong.
In fact many times its a persons altered reality which yields a perspective outside the clam box.
So yes Im insane. But now that I answered your question , I have one of my own questions for you:
...This vast file cabinet in your possession, the one with all the scientific research on tridacna one could ever need. ..... how many of these so called clam husbandry experts ever actually cultured clams successfully?

The reality is that almost all the people who have ever attempted clam farm have failed. which proves that even the farmers dont even know what makes clams tick.

All one has to do is look at the countless failed attempts at farming clams over the past ten years to begin to realize the trickle down effect this this lack of useful clam research is having on the hobby.

Clam farm results over the past ten or so years:

1.)MMDC in Palau? (failed)

2.)Heslingain's Ocean science and technology Hawaii?(failed)

3.) Wildlife Ecosystems in Tenn?(failed)

4.)How many clams has Dinar produced lately ?(dismal)

5.)ORA?(trickle)

6.)Tonga hasnt produced Derasa or Squamosa for several years .(fair)

7.)Phonapei farm barely got one crop in five years. (occasional )

8.)East Samoa farm got one one crop of derasa out of five years of trying.( rarely)

...Only one farm in the world seems to have a grip on the culturing of clams.

Yet your seem to be holding up your hand and asking to be excused from this disscussion because your brain is already full?

Are you satisfied with the current state of clam husbandry?

If not then why are you so abrasive to new ideas?

As for you question:

Much to your surprise one day soon ...you might find that I talk to many of the same industry individuals that you do.( I am in the business after all)

But it seems I have greatly different conversations with them.

Wonder why that is?
  #153  
Old 08/16/2007, 09:17 AM
mbbuna mbbuna is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kalkbreath


The reality is that almost all the people who have ever attempted clam farm have failed. which proves that even the farmers dont even know what makes clams tick.

All one has to do is look at the countless failed attempts at farming clams over the past ten years to begin to realize the trickle down effect this this lack of useful clam research is having on the hobby.


Kalk im getting a little tired of you presenting your convoluted conjecture as FACT. these farms didnt fail because they didnt know how to breed or care for or "know what makes them tick". look at the first one you talk about http://www.micsem.org/pubs/counselor...s/claminfr.htm

this one failed for multiple reasons but none of them were the inability to raise the clams.


holly mackerel this thread is ALL OVER the place. the only thing missing is Charo doing the huchy kuchy dance
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  #154  
Old 08/16/2007, 10:40 AM
jfatherree jfatherree is offline
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Seriously - how about government intervention (export regulation changes), storms clearing out all of a farm's of cages, Dinar lost something like 10,000 clams due to bleaching, locals stealing cages by the dozens, problems with infrastructure (electricity), problems with shipping via airlines etc. - and just poor management and business practices? Nobody told you about all these things when you talked to them?

Wrong again.
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  #155  
Old 08/16/2007, 10:45 AM
jfatherree jfatherree is offline
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BTW - you still haven't posted even a single reference that I've asked for. Why?

If you've had any farm tell you that they're having trouble because they can't figure out how to rear clams - by all means give me their number. I'll call them.
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  #156  
Old 08/16/2007, 11:12 AM
mhurley mhurley is offline
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I don't have the time nor inclination to read 7 pages so I will start with this and hope I don't have to check back in here.

[flamealert]
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  #157  
Old 08/16/2007, 01:03 PM
Kalkbreath Kalkbreath is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jfatherree
BTW - you still haven't posted even a single reference that I've asked for. Why?

I am the reference.
Every new idea has a starting point.
...........And it seems new ideas as well as starting points are as of late in short order.

Do you have any new concepts as to how we might gain ground on captive husbandry of giant clams?

Or are you still content with the current research?
  #158  
Old 08/16/2007, 01:22 PM
jfatherree jfatherree is offline
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Thank you for verifying that your ideas are just that - your ideas - based on no research and lacking any form of controlled experiments to support them, etc. Finally.

Over and out.
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  #159  
Old 08/16/2007, 03:18 PM
Kalkbreath Kalkbreath is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jfatherree
Thank you for verifying that your ideas are just that - your ideas - based on no research and lacking any form of controlled experiments to support them, etc. Finally.

Over and out.
I never said any such thing . Im just keeping a lid on my sources until my new book comes out. (wink)
I have given you and others every opportunity to offer your opinion with the issues I have raised, yet you seem to continually back away?
Must every thing you type be a quote from someone elses works?

I dont have Plagiaristic links to supply because Im the first to bring up these novel issues.

Statements I have presented which conflict the current wisdom with clam husbandry advise :

*Where a clam was raised influences its biological pre disposition.
Farmed clams have vastly different life historys then wild clams.
Yet they have identical life history's with clams from the same farm .
Does knowing what conditions a clam came from make it easier to offer husbandry advise as compared to blanket statements based on wild clam observations?
And if all the clams in a persons tank are from identical growing conditions , does this simplify things for the hobbyists ?
Does it seem to reason that mixing clams from various regions from around the world might expose those clams to pathogens they are not accustomed to ? ( like small pox and the white man and the American Indians)
Clams that have been living together all their lives are less likely encounter pathogens they are not accustomed to.

Last edited by Kalkbreath; 08/16/2007 at 03:25 PM.
  #160  
Old 08/16/2007, 03:59 PM
mbbuna mbbuna is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kalkbreath

I have given you and others every opportunity to offer your opinion with the issues I have raised, yet you seem to continually back away?
are you reading the same thread as everyone else?

every wacky theory you've posted we've dis proven with real research, and what you do is propose another wacky theory. your the one dancing.

its good to think out of the box but you cant just blow off legitimate science
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  #161  
Old 08/16/2007, 05:52 PM
Kalkbreath Kalkbreath is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mbbuna
are you reading the same thread as everyone else?

every wacky theory you've posted we've dis proven with real research, and what you do is propose another wacky theory. your the one dancing.

its good to think out of the box but you cant just blow off legitimate science
Did I miss something? What research?
You snicker and sneer, but thats hardly the same as disproving with real research.


1.)I asked if perhaps we should examine the idea that PM is connected to the thousands of optic nerves (eyes)located inside a clams mantel?
Where did you establish that Pinched Mantel not an affliction of the optic nerve?

2.)I suggested that captive raised clams might adapt to the conditions of the farm from which they were raised and that this would differentiate farm raised clams form wild clams which can be collected in a wide variety of habitats. ( even within a single collection outing)
Where did you illustrate that captive raised clams are identical to wild clams and are equally suited for captive life regardless of where they were collected (or grown) and that a clam collected at sixty feet of water will fair just as well in the average reef tank as a clam collected in six feet of water. ( ie deep water acros requiring less light then reef crest acroporas)

3.) I suggested that clam husbandry is still a long way from being a mastered science.
Where did you illustrate the competence of modern clam farming and the consummate abilities of todays average clam keeping hobbyist?


4.) I suggested that because sand storms are an natural event out in the wild and that clams have adapted to having sand on their gills during stormy weather... that perhaps this might explain why clams in captivity often have gill related disease problems.
Where did you or anyone else confirm that chickens....I mean clams dont benifit form a dusting with sand?

Last edited by Kalkbreath; 08/16/2007 at 06:06 PM.
  #162  
Old 08/16/2007, 07:23 PM
mbbuna mbbuna is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kalkbreath
Did I miss something? What research?
You snicker and sneer, but thats hardly the same as disproving with real research.
you've provided nothing!! when asked for anything you say "im the reference" or "i cant revile my source untill i write my new book". on the other hand you said that the digestive system of clams was an unknown and I provided many links explaining exactly how they acquire there nutrition.

i am snickering and sneering because you are blowing off legitimate research as a none issue.

Quote:
1.)I asked if perhaps we should examine the idea that PM is connected to the thousands of optic nerves (eyes)located inside a clams mantel?
legitimate research is being done on this subject right now. (i cant revile anything untill i write my book )


Quote:
2.)I suggested that captive raised clams might adapt to the conditions of the farm from which they were raised and that this would differentiate farm raised clams form wild clams which can be collected in a wide variety of habitats. ( even within a single collection outing)
you tried to coin them as "domesticated". now your trying to get me to answer your own question. you tell me how are they different? i will remind you this question has been asked rapidly.

this isn't in quotes because you are editing

"3.) I suggested that clam husbandry is still a long way from being a mastered science.
Where did you illustrate the competence of modern clam farming and the consummate abilities of today's average clam keeping hobbyist?"

you are mincing words here. if you read back through the thread i said that changing the term from "cultured" to "domesticated" would have no impact on the average hobbyist because they only want the pretty blue one.
you posted saying that clam farms were closing down because "they didn't know what made them tick". i linked a place that explained exactly why that one place closed. you are not as in touch with the clam world as you think you are!







Quote:
4.) I suggested that because sand storms are an natural event out in the wild and that clams have adapted to having sand on their gills during stormy weather... that perhaps this might explain why clams in captivity often have gill related disease problems.
4.) I suggested that because sand storms are an natural event out in the wild and that clams have adapted to having sand on their gills during stormy weather... that perhaps this might explain why clams in captivity often have gill related disease problems.
Where did you or anyone else confirm that chickens....I mean clams dont benifit form a dusting with sand?

where did you prove that they did? and might i add this was your only post where you said "perhaps" every other post was made as FACT!

im just a hobbyist! but im not a dumb hobbyist! provide some proof of anything you claim.
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  #163  
Old 08/17/2007, 06:57 AM
billsreef billsreef is offline
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I think this one has gone far enough.

BTW as a professional aquaculturist, I can tell you all that sucesfull aquaculture is based on creating conditions that animal requires...not making the animal adapt to your conditions
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