Closed Loop vs. Tunze (500 gallon Display)

46bfinGA · #1 11/22/2007, 10:57 AM

Ok guys,I'm about to order the bulkheads for my closed loop and drill the holes in my tank,and have been thinking about how much I have allready spent on this closed loop system.I'm contemplating buying some Tunze with Multicontroller instead and just selling the closed loop which consists of a Sequence pump and an OM 4way.

I'm looking for some advice from people who have used both and can give me some solid advice on which one they preferred.My tank is Acrylic 8'x4'x2' and will be filled with approx. 500 lbs. of live rock and 3-4" sand bed.Will be an aggressive reef tank filled with softies.
So alot of flow is not needed,but I do want it to be enough to keep detritus suspended so it can make it down to my sump and skimmer.

So which route would you guys choose if you had the chance to do it over again?

steve the plumb · #2 11/22/2007, 11:13 AM

the 4 way alone won't be enough flow.I have the dart and an 8 way on my 300 8 ftx30x24 I have 6 of my 8 outlets split with tee's,all my fittings are 1".I have the drum with 2 holes opposite ends.The outlets that aren't split get a nice flow but the ones that are are weak.I should have either gotten the drum with one hole or not used tee's.I also have a dart pump for a return pump so this helps with the flow.I would use the hammerhead and an 8 way on that size tank.You may want to use 2 dart pumps and 2x 4 ways that would make for a nice flow.It will cost you a good amount of money for the plumbing so if you don't mind the look of the power heads you can go that route.Maxi jet pumps with the mod would be cheap and you can use the seio controller.Your tank is pretty wide so thats where I am thinking a 4 way isn't enough outlets to get a good flow.I have my outlets around 6" off the floor so they are aimed upwards to try and blow the detritus towards the overflow but not to low where I get a sand storm.

Jar*Head · #3 11/22/2007, 11:28 AM

I agree with Steve. I am going to have the same setup 8x4x2 when i get to my new duty station next year. I already have the Tank design done as well as the sump, light rack and metal stand. I don't plan to run CL due to the Heat and electricity usage, even though the CL will help get rid of PH but it will not provide as much flow as the PH IMO. I can get away with 2 tunze 6301 and 4 tunze waveboxes. My tunze waveboxes will be external and each box will house 2 tunze pumps dimension 12Lx6wx13H. My tank going to be a room divider so one end will house the ext overflow box, and 2 dual wavebox. My return pump going to be the tunze master electronic 1073.090 120w @ 2200gph.

Unless you decided to go with couple of larger pump which is the Sequence 5800gph and a few OM.

steve the plumb · #4 11/22/2007, 04:07 PM

you could also go with a few vortech 6 of them would be nice but not cheap.It would give you a nice flow and with the wireless control you can get a nice wave going.Electricity won't be that bad and they look nice.

46bfinGA · #5 11/22/2007, 10:26 PM

Ive been looking at the Vortech's but your right they are not cheap especially when you look at how many i would need. What do you guys think about using my closed loop with the OM.And maybe throwing some MJ mods in the bare spots if I have any.I could probably try to hide them in/behind the rocks or something.I have a Dart return pump as well that will provide some flow from the front of the tank.

Ive also had a hard time deciding where to mount my returns from my CL.I can either drill them into the top or mount them lower in the tank on the sides.Which has worked better for getting good flow? I have a total of 3 Dart's and one Barricuda I can use for this system allready laying around here at the house.What to do?What to do?

46bfinGA · #6 11/22/2007, 10:33 PM

Now that I think about it Maybe I can use the Barricuda with my OM 4way Version 3 along the back of the tank with 4 outlets,have the return (Dart) come into the left side of the tank with a couple returns,and then on the right side use another Dart on a closed loop with just a couple returns? That would leave me one more Dart for my NW Skimmer.But do I really need all that flow for a softie tank? Seems like alot ?
With all that electricity usage would I be better off just going with Vortech's or Tunze? This is the biggest tank I have had so this is a whole new ballgame for me.Thansk for the advice guys.

46bfinGA · #7 11/22/2007, 10:33 PM

ooops double post

Jar*Head · #8 11/22/2007, 10:41 PM

IMO, you can get away with 1 CL with OM and 2 tunze 6200 or 6201. The CL will provide flow from the back to the front and the tunze do the wave motion side to side. I don't think the 6200 will look bulky in the 8x4x2 especially when you have it mount in the back of the tank shooting across. What do you think?

46bfinGA · #9 11/22/2007, 10:47 PM

The tank is in wall and the sides and back will be covered by either blue or black covering so the powerheads shouldnt be too sitely.Atleast I hope. Would two Vortech's withe wireless drivers be better then tunze? I have only used MJ Mod's and Seios on their controllers in the past so I have no experience whatsoever with these high end powerheads.

46bfinGA · #10 11/22/2007, 10:49 PM

Do the Tunze 6200's and multicontroller provide a Wave like the Vortech's? Or do you have to have the Waveboxes to do that?

Chihuahua6 · #11 11/22/2007, 10:51 PM

I can't really help you with the equipment but I was curious about your stocking. What type of aggressive fish are you planning? I'm so glad to see someone else with a large tank who is interested in softies too. I am planning my next tank and I want it to be high light softie dominated (reef flat biotope maybe) with peaceful to semi-aggressive fish. I'm assuming you meant the larger aggressive type fish which is what I had years ago. It's was about ten years ago actually.

46bfinGA · #12 11/22/2007, 11:10 PM

I have a jeweled eel and plan on buying a small dragon eel.Plus I like to keep triggers,large tangs,Harlequin tusk,wrasses,etc.But I dont like tanks that are your typical FOWLR with just boring rocks or fake decorations. I want a colorfull reef tank with big yellow fiji leathers,mushrooms,colorfull but easy to care for stuff with aggressive fish.Just my taste

I have other tanks that will be in my fish room for the Wimpier fish like Clownfish,Gobies,Dwarf lionfishes,etc......that I also like to have.

Jar*Head · #13 11/22/2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 46bfinGA
Do the Tunze 6200's and multicontroller provide a Wave like the Vortech's? Or do you have to have the Waveboxes to do that?

Tunze 6200 on Multicontroller provide more flow than vortech does. IMO, vortech is for smaller tank, unless you want to go with a few of them (like steve mentioned). I don't know how many option does the vortech wireless controller has but i know Tunze has 4 (Pulse, interval 1,2 and sequential). On your size tank, i think pulse or interval 2 is the best option.

BTW, i don't want to open another can of worms on tunze vs Vortech....

46bfinGA · #14 11/22/2007, 11:21 PM

Thanks for the Info.I had no idea.Ill check into them. As I look at the prices of these things,MAN I need a new job or something.$450 for one powerhead? Just seems like Robbery to me.

Jar*Head · #15 11/22/2007, 11:32 PM

That is why im still at work on thanksgiving hehehehe. So how much does the Vortech cost? Remember, this is 5300+ gph at 65w.

46bfinGA · #16 11/22/2007, 11:40 PM

Vortech is $419 with wireless driver. Your right alot of flow at low wattage.

Jar*Head · #17 11/22/2007, 11:43 PM

What is the thickness of your tank? If it is 1"... you should kiss the vortech goodbye

46bfinGA · #18 11/23/2007, 12:04 AM

Nope 3/4" I might try 2 of those Vortech' with wireless drivers.They flow between 50 and 3000 gph. I wonder if they would make much of a wave in a 8' long tank. Probably make all the softies in the tank look really cool. I like the fact that you can put them on a battery backup,but for $150 this technology is just not cheap.

Jar*Head · #19 11/23/2007, 12:06 AM

BTW, i like the becket skimmer you have... It look sweet....

46bfinGA · #20 11/23/2007, 12:11 AM

Thanks I just sold it. Im going with a Dart NW now,built by the same guy who built my Beckett.

Jar*Head · #21 11/23/2007, 12:19 AM

Nice. I heard a lot of good feed back on the dart NW....

hahnmeister · #22 11/23/2007, 03:20 AM

Id do tunzes. If you do some good rock planning like Iwan's tank, they can be completely hidden from view, and placed up top for easy access.

elvictre · #23 11/23/2007, 09:56 AM

I have a 10x4x2 and I run 2 tunze waveboxes and 2 6201. And I think I have plenty of flow but some might perfer more. You are also working with 8 ft instead of 10 ft so I think Tunzes would be fine.

steve the plumb · #24 11/23/2007, 10:08 AM

Witch Dart NW did you get.I got mine from ORCA he sent it to my cousins house about 3 weeks ago(NYC) I am going there to pick it up this weekend.I was going to get it earlier but plans changed(the wife)Tunze also sells those rocks that you can use to hide the power heads .The Vortech has 4 modes I think you should get some kind of wave motion out of them.I don't know if 2 will give you a good wave since your tank is pretty wide,you can e-mail them or ask an online vendor.The tunze are a little bulky but they are very nice pumps.I am thinking of adding 2 vortechs to my tank I think for my tank it will be enough flow.You will notice that just using one dart pump and an 8 way will give you a decent flow but its not enough to get the entire tank.The dart for a return pump does help a lot with the flow.I notice that when I shut of my return pump the flow is a little to mild.Those tunze pumps aren't cheap either.Any witch way you look at it you need a $1000 minimum.I would think about 2 dart pumps and 2x4 ways that would make for a nice flow and use the barracuda for your skimmer.Maybe use the Barracuda with one of the 4 ways and a dart for the other.Since you have the pumps.

46bfinGA · #25 11/23/2007, 11:13 AM

Im getting mine from a friend who is about to start Manuf. them on his own website.They are very Nice! They will be out soon.I'll post some pics when I get mine.

Im thinking regarding the flow Im just going to try and use what I have now and see how it works out.If I need any additional flow anywhere Im just going to add a MJ 1200 mod or something with the magnet mounts and call it a day. The Tunze and Vortech's are just too expensive for my budget right now.

Now on to closed loop placement,what has worked best for you guys?
Do you think I should put my returns in the back of the tank or on the sides?
My tank is in wall,I can put them just about anywhere on the tank.

If I use the Barricuda with my OM4way,then that leaves me a Dart for my return from the sump.Then I could throw another dart on the opposing side if I needed to.Any ideas on how to best place these returns?