Elegance Coral theory

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by dla2000
How long does it takes the elegance coral to go back to normal.

If it was a light issue.

Now that is a good question. It depends on the intensity and duration of the exposure to bright lights. Then the amount of light it is exposed to after the fact. During over exposure the O2 levels climb within the coral. This O2 does not simply disappear as soon as the coral is removed from the light. It may take hours for the O2 to drop to levels that are no longer damaging. The O2 levels may still be rather high the next morning when the lights come back on and photosynthesis begins again. At this point it does not take much to elevate the O2 back up to damaging levels. I believe this is what most people are seeing with their Elegance corals. A cycle of damage day after day until the corals tissues are so destroyed that infection takes over. Assuming your coral was reacting to the brighter lights, it may take a day or two of lower light exposure for the coral to fully recover. This is why I liked you lighting system. You have the ability to supply the coral with low levels of light for brief periods of time, allowing the coral time to lower the O2 levels in its tissues. If there was cellular damage it could take several months to recover. I do not believe your coral has been damaged to this degree. Now that you have moved the lights back up some, hopefully, over the next day or two its expansion will improve. Only time will tell. I have my fingers crossed .

[dla2000]

Just to let you know my elegance coral is starting to open up.

[dla2000]

Originally posted by dla2000
Just to let you know my elegance coral is starting to open up.

and It is still feeding. I just feed it 3 small pieces of krill.

[John Kelly]

The time it takes for any coral, not just Elegance, to fully acclimate and adjust to light is usually between several weeks to several months. It is a slow process. The coral comes into the hobby already "programmed" to a specific light intensity and schedule. The zooxanthellae (brown color) are set at a certain density relative to the light and the fluorescent proteins (bright color) are also set at a certain density relative to the light. When there is a large contrast between the natural environment and the captive environment it can have very negative effects on the coral, which cause negative behaviors; such as puffing, tentacle retraction, fading, bleaching, burning, prolonged tentacle retraction, algae invasion under the tissue, infection, and more. A coral will normally have to adjust to lighting changes that are barely even perceptible and the only way to show that these changes take place is by taking photos over a period of time. The point is that every change you make, even very small changes, are sensed by the coral and can affect the coral before it has time to acclimate because the acclimation process is SLOW. Therefore, changes must be made slowly.

The most widespread and deadly problem in this hobby is IMPATIENCE.

[JRM88]

Just thought I'd show you my elegance Ive had it for about 4-5 months and I feed it mysis shrimp about twice a week It will generally catch more food when I feed the fish as well. I really hope your work helps to save many more elegance corals

[lechee12]

wow jsut read thru this whole thread and boy is it interesting. This is a elegant i got last week from a lfs for real cheap for obvious reasons (they had it right under the surface of the water under a mh bulb). So now i'm trying to save it...i put it in a decent flow area in the dimest spot i can find, but i cant seem to get it to eat fish or krill, but i did squirt some cyclopeeze at it and got some kind of reaction...any help appreciated

[JRM88]

Wow that one looks terrible, good luck with it

[dla2000]

All is great

[elegance coral]

I believe this is a great example of how sensitive these corals are to light.

This is the coral with not enough light.


This is the same coral with to much light.


Here it is in much more acceptable light.



Thank you, DLA2000 for sharing this with us. It looks like your lighting system on rails may have just saved your corals life. Great job!

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by JRM88
Just thought I'd show you my elegance Ive had it for about 4-5 months and I feed it mysis shrimp about twice a week It will generally catch more food when I feed the fish as well. I really hope your work helps to save many more elegance corals

You Aussies just love rubbin it in, don't ya? Just kiddin. That is one healthy Elegance! I can remember back when we would get Elegance corals like that over here. Those days are long gone though . I hope my work saves more Elegance corals too. I think my work may have helped save a few already.

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by lechee12
wow jsut read thru this whole thread and boy is it interesting. This is a elegant i got last week from a lfs for real cheap for obvious reasons (they had it right under the surface of the water under a mh bulb). So now i'm trying to save it...i put it in a decent flow area in the dimest spot i can find, but i cant seem to get it to eat fish or krill, but i did squirt some cyclopeeze at it and got some kind of reaction...any help appreciated

I'm glad you enjoyed the thread. It's getting pretty long, so I don't think most people will be reading through the whole thing.

I wouldn't try feeding it right now. Unfortunately it has lost its ability to feed. Trying to feed it now will just stress it out. It will not eat the cyclopeeze either. If all goes well, in a month or so you will be able to begin feeding it. In the middle of the day when its tentacles are at their longest you can try tucking a very small (about 1/8 of an inch or smaller) piece of shrimp or fish in its tentacles. It may not eat it at first, but eventually it will. The longer its tentacles get the better your chances become of getting it to feed. In a month or two its tentacles should be a little longer. I have begun to dose vitamins and amino acids to the tank to help my Elegance corals during this time when they won't feed. While this is far from a scientific experiment, it does seems to be helping.

Is this a pic of the coral after it has been in your tank for a week? If so, I believe it will survive. It will be a very long road, and the coral will be overly sensitive for a long time to come. Light and heat are its two biggest enemies at this point. As the temperature climbs the amount of light it can handle is greatly reduced. This coral will withdraw dramatically from time to time. There is not much you can do about this in its current state. If it begins to swell and remains swollen for more than a few minutes you will need to check the temp. If its not swelling now, I don't think it will unless the temp climbs to high.

I hope this helps, and if you have any more questions please feel free to ask.

[John Kelly]

Originally posted by elegance coral
I believe this is a great example of how sensitive these corals are to light.

Yes, excellent example!
The "disease" reaction was caused by less than 100w pc lighting and the lights look like they were still 6 or 8 inches off of the tank after they were moved down.

Originally posted by dla2000
72w pc
50/50 on for about 5 hours
27w dual actinic on for 12 hours

[JRM88]

Well I have to pay at least $100 for a single cleaner shrimp so I need to rub something in :P

[elegance coral]

Hay John. I contacted your friend with the podcast yesterday. It looks like it may happen! I also listened to your podcast. Great job, and very informative. I had no idea there were so many similarities between the Elegance coral problem and the Goniopora problem. I knew about the light causing tissue damage, but did not know that Goniopora were showing the same diminished sting or ability to feed that Elegance corals are showing. The only real difference I noticed was in the way they feed, with Elegance corals not being filter feeders. You are also the first person I have heard speak out against the dirty water theory, other than myself. I really enjoyed your podcast and hope mine turns out that good.

[elegance coral]

I have been talking with John Kelly through PM on the subject of providing nutrients to these corals when they have lost their ability to feed normally. Mr. Kelly has been supplying his Goniopora that suffer from this condition with liquid foods. He reports having success with this techniek. While I haven't tried this for myself, it sounds like a very good idea to me. To aid with this problem I have been dosing vitamins and amino acids. I have noticed better polyp expansion, more rapid return of symbiotic algae, and a more rapid return to normal feeding with these additions. I can see pros and cons to both approaches. Dosing vitamins and amino acids doesn't seem to have a great impact on water quality, however there may be vital nutrients that are missing in these additions. When adding liquid foods you can be fairly confident that the proper nutrition is there, but one would need to find the proper balance with these feedings. Not enough liquid food and you would not accomplish your goal. To much liquid food and you run the risk of degrading the water quality. I believe both methods have merit and could be used with success. Personally, I'm going to continue to dose vitamins and amino acids and begin small feedings of liquid foods to see how these two approaches work together. Who knows, this may speed up recovery time even further. That would be sweet!

[crazedreefer]

I am sorry...I really do not want to read through all this stuff stuff right now...I have a very elegance that I have had for 4 months with some growth...under 3 250w phoenix 14k's, it is at the bottom of a 24" tall tank in the back corner, so not direct light...

[jman77]

here's a updated pic of mine ....... dam these things grow fast

[dla2000]

Elegance coral.

When an elegance gets large, would you need to supply it with more light?

[Charles Ward]

I just bumped mine from 250 watt mh to 400 watt and its doing great. But it is very large and IMO it probally needed to have more light.

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by dla2000
Elegance coral.

When an elegance gets large, would you need to supply it with more light?

No. At least not in my opinion. As they grow their energy requirements do increase, but so does the available realestate for growing zooxanthellae. Assuming the density of algae does not change, the algae within a 5 cubic inch Elegance coral could produce 5 times as much energy as the same density of algae in a 1 cubic inch Elegance. Larger Elegance corals also have the ability to feed on larger prey items. I also believe these corals have the ability to retain nutrients directly from the water. As the polyp grows the amount of water it takes to inflate the polyp increases, and with it the amount of nutrients it can retain. So, as an Elegance grows its ability to obtain energy also grows, even if we never increase the light it receives. I also believe there is a maximum level of light that these deep water Elegance corals can adapt to. Regardless of the Elegance corals size, if we exceed this maximum level of light the relationship between the coral and its algae begins to break down. It is my opinion that once an Elegance coral has adapted to a particular set of lights, any change can be stressful. For these reasons, I do not believe it is necessary or even beneficial to increase the lighting as an Elegance coral grows. In fact it could be detrimental.

[Julio]

these corals have never been thought to be of hihg light requirement as they are often found in lagoons with merky water and on the sandbed.

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by hobogato
great thread - like many, i tried a couple of elegance corals long ago and when they died (because i followed the advice in those old coral books) i decided not to try again. recently, after some discussion with other locals, i decided to try again and basically did what you suggest (even tho i hadnt found this thread yet) the smaller one has been in my tank for about 6 months. it is in my 240 mixed reef (sps dominant) in an area of low flow and low light (for the tank). it has doubled in size since getting it. the larger one, i just got yesterday, but it already seems very happy. i think it was getting too much light at the lfs, but hopefully it wasnt drastic enough to cause damage that the coral cant overcome.

before you comment on the cyano, let me say that my system went thru a mini cycle a while back because of rearranging some rock work, and the cyano is now on the decline.

Where does your LFS get its Elegance corals from? I'm always looking for large Elegance corals like the last one you got, but they are hard to find. Good luck, and beautiful corals!

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by Julio
these corals have never been thought to be of hihg light requirement as they are often found in lagoons with merky water and on the sandbed.

It's a little more complicated than that.

[Charles Ward]

Are you talking about where LFS get their livestock or geographically?

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by Charles Ward
Are you talking about where LFS get their livestock or geographically?

What I'm looking for is a source, any source, that can provide extra large Elegance corals. What I am working on now is getting them to spawn so I can raise the larvae. (don't laugh ) To do this I need large healthy corals, but they are hard to find.