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  #26  
Old 11/18/2007, 01:00 AM
rishma rishma is offline
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Quote:
the flat bottom mesh make more air hard to control and increase the pump watt.....
got it! I misunderstood your first post. Thanks mavgi.
  #27  
Old 11/18/2007, 01:07 AM
mavgi mavgi is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by rishma
got it! I misunderstood your first post. Thanks mavgi.
if you will try 2 layer of PF4 it will perform good and if you want to reduce the air more you can trim the mesh even less then the wheel diameter size .

it's always better then pin wheel impeller the reason very simple you can't change pin impeller with the mesh you can play and do what ever you want to get less/more air and to find the right way to tune the skimmer the way you want.... take some time but when you find the right way it will perform the same always.
  #28  
Old 11/18/2007, 01:18 AM
ATB USA ATB USA is offline
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Mavgi
Ok I did the two layers of pf4 trimmed to the same size as the disc. The air intake is bumping between 8L/min and 10L/min but no micro bubbles in 7 inches of sump water.

Thank you
  #29  
Old 11/18/2007, 01:22 AM
rishma rishma is offline
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IME, the bumping will deminish after several days and air intake will settle out at the higher end of the range.
  #30  
Old 11/18/2007, 01:27 AM
mavgi mavgi is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATB USA
Mavgi
Ok I did the two layers of pf4 trimmed to the same size as the disc. The air intake is bumping between 8L/min and 10L/min but no micro bubbles in 7 inches of sump water.

Thank you

Victor

if you see it's pull to much you can reduce the diameter of the mesh ...... i don't suggest to work with the flat bottom mesh at all (hard to control on it) the PF4 will perform more steady after 2-3 days .you can also trim ittle bit from the top of the mesh to make it more equal and to get the air runing more steady
  #31  
Old 11/18/2007, 04:20 AM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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Removing the mesh on the wheels (unless you remove it all...lol) does very little to reduce the output of the pump if the pump is dealing with minimal back-pressure. Think about it... the rpm is the same, so the centrifugal force is the same, and so will be the angular acceleration.

On a single pass skimmer where the pump is under several inches of water (your typical cylinder shape), this places back pressure on the pump (which reduces its output). The impeller diameter makes an impact then because the water is trying to resist the pump more.

On these ATB's, esp the nano, the water level that the cone is in is so low, so back pressure on the air intake is minimal. Thanks to the cone shape, the waterline inside the body can be kept much lower inside the skimmer as well, so the back-pressure on the pump is minimal. So as long as there is a bare minimum of mesh on the wheel... putting more on doesnt do much.

If this was an ATI bubblemaster, Euroreef, etc... something where the water level in the skimmer was resisting the pump more, then yes, removing some mesh might make a difference. But with these cone skimmers... I figured it wouldnt work, and when Victor tried it, sure enough... no difference. The best way to cut back the pump is by placing a restriction on the output of the pump (since placing more restriction on the intake of the pump can lead to problems if you dont know exactly what you are doing). And sure enough, it worked.

Sometimes, reducing the mesh/impeller size in the volute can actually lead to more air intake since you just made more room in the pump to handle it.

The upside of the method Victor used to restrict the pump is that the pump is still able to process the air and water, and if anything, 'mix' it for a longer time than previous. It may not be noticable to the naked eye, but the bubbles coming out of the pump, even though they are lower in volume, are more than likely smaller in diameter... so its almost an even trade: the air output might be restricted by 32%, but I bet those bubbles are a good deal smaller as well, which increases performance because the net surface area of the air in the skimmer is boosted. Remember, two bubbles with the volume of one larger one have something like 50% more surface area between them (cant remember if thats the exact number or not... something like that... its late so I dont feel like doing the math).

Sometimes when an asperating pump has its throughput increased too much, the air doesnt spend enough time in the pump to get blended as well as it could be... we have seen this on other pumps like the ReefFlo Dart in the past where the water flow is so high compared to the air throughput, and the consequence is that the air spends much less time in the pump getting 'blended'. Sometimes a little less flow can make for a better mix.
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  #32  
Old 11/18/2007, 12:50 PM
Lumamae Lumamae is offline
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wow! heavy duty discussions on just the pump. just to let everyone know, there's a ATB sponsor forum that just open up and some of these discussions would go great there.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...s=&forumid=531

where are the other ATB owners? isn't any of them on RC?
  #33  
Old 11/18/2007, 12:53 PM
ATB USA ATB USA is offline
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From your feedback ATB has made a needlewheel impeller for the nano
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/e.../impeller3.jpg
  #34  
Old 11/18/2007, 12:55 PM
ATB USA ATB USA is offline
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http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/e.../impeller1.jpg
  #35  
Old 11/18/2007, 01:02 PM
Al G Blenny Al G Blenny is offline
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  #36  
Old 11/18/2007, 01:06 PM
Lumamae Lumamae is offline
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wow, that was fast. how can they turn out an impeller in 24 hours. awesome! will the current ATB owners be able to get this replacement needlewheel impeller? is there a choice of needlewheel or threadwheel in the future or everything switching to needlewheel? last question, how much air draw with the needlewheel used in the eheim 1250?
  #37  
Old 11/18/2007, 01:54 PM
ATB USA ATB USA is offline
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Well Anton (ATB Austria) has his own cnc machines so its not to hard for him to make us impellers. I guess eheim does not sell only the needlewheel impeller in the EU. Both impellers are the same size the way ATB does the impeller it wouldn't be that much to get a disc for mesh mod. The magnet is what is costly. Yes I am going to replace all the Nanos with needlewheel impellers I think this will solve our microbubbles. The air we are hoping to be at 500-550 tests are still being performed.
Thank you
  #38  
Old 11/19/2007, 12:20 AM
hiepatitis hiepatitis is offline
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What happened to the sponsor forum? There's nothing on there anymore.
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  #39  
Old 11/19/2007, 12:31 AM
ATB USA ATB USA is offline
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There was a misunderstanding they thought I cancelled my account. I have emailed Ryan and hope it will be solved soon.

Thank you
  #40  
Old 11/19/2007, 10:11 PM
hiepatitis hiepatitis is offline
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Any ATB owners out there?
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  #41  
Old 11/19/2007, 10:26 PM
rishma rishma is offline
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they are too busy drooling over their foam...
  #42  
Old 11/20/2007, 02:35 AM
Al G Blenny Al G Blenny is offline
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Not many people have them yet. ATB USA just started bringing them in to the country. I picked up two of them. One for myself and one for a customer of mine. I think there are only like a dozen in all of the US right now. I just happen to be lucky and I live near them. Give them some time. There is a lot more demand than supply. I can't wait to see others post their comparisons with other skimmers they were running before getting one.
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  #43  
Old 11/20/2007, 03:32 AM
hiepatitis hiepatitis is offline
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How do these compare to the H&S?
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  #44  
Old 11/20/2007, 04:14 AM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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The club will be expanding soon... The specs on the Laguna 1500 based pump are all settled and ready to go. The body will have about a 13.8" base, and a 6" neck. 1500lph of air (needlewheel), 25.6" high.

This will be a 'final' design if you will... designed for 60hz. So no microbubble or sump waterline concerns. Its good to go.

Next will be the XL, maybe an XXL even (a 3000-4000lph Laguna 2400 based pump). Demand will dictate the possibility of that model with Anton/ATB. If there was demand at all, I know that the Laguna 4200 would make for a nice 6000-8000lph pump as well... a body for that would have to be close to 4' tall, 24" base diameter, and a 12"+ diameter neck. Super-commercial grade you could call it... made with 1/2" thick acrylic most likely. Anyone have a 3000+ gallon tank that needs a skimmer? The cool thing is that it would only be about 120 watts.
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  #45  
Old 11/20/2007, 07:14 AM
dphins dphins is offline
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It's a shame that an American company doesn't make a cone shaped skimmer. The Euro just keeps getting higher. I guess I have to work more overtime.
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  #46  
Old 11/20/2007, 11:56 AM
xinumaster xinumaster is offline
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Can ATB sell the skimmer with out the pump?
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  #47  
Old 11/20/2007, 12:26 PM
CruzinKim CruzinKim is offline
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I'm sure that they will only deduct, like around $100 if they did. The local dealer in SF already tested the ATB Small with the Sicce pump, drawing over 1,000lph and it overwhelmed the skimmer, so the ATB Small is too small to handle the Sicce. I'm going to take a look at the ATB Nano they're testing when I get back from the holidays. I heard the collection cup is filling every 5 days on a 180g light bioload fish only tank.

Last edited by CruzinKim; 11/20/2007 at 12:31 PM.
  #48  
Old 11/20/2007, 02:01 PM
ATB USA ATB USA is offline
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At this time ATB USA will not be selling any skimmer bodies without the pumps the reason for this is we have matched each body with the correct pump. We would like each customer to get the highest performance expected from our products.
Thanks
Victor
  #49  
Old 11/20/2007, 02:20 PM
Maximus Maximus is offline
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Victor, is ATB reworking the pumps on the Small model (more airflow)? Or, will the next shipment have the same pumps?
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  #50  
Old 11/20/2007, 02:45 PM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by CruzinKim
I'm sure that they will only deduct, like around $100 if they did. The local dealer in SF already tested the ATB Small with the Sicce pump, drawing over 1,000lph and it overwhelmed the skimmer, so the ATB Small is too small to handle the Sicce. I'm going to take a look at the ATB Nano they're testing when I get back from the holidays. I heard the collection cup is filling every 5 days on a 180g light bioload fish only tank.
Thats odd, I tried the same thing, and the skimmer worked fine... had it up at over 1100lph. The skimmer didnt perform any better though. Anton has said this before, that more air in these bodies wont improve the performance so much as just make the skimmate lighter. So to get more performance, you need a larger neck.
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